5
10
203
-
https://accounts.ulster.ac.uk/repo24/files/original/7ab21b321a35f1c1e026e6beed39a89f.pdf
9ff672e8bfd20737d3e4303f2224ef77
PDF Text
Text
Green and Blue Project
Dónal Cullinane Interview Transcript
I am coming up... sixty five born 1949
I suppose I was on the force for two to three years... and mostly all single people
were drafted up that time, because of... I suppose, it costs... cost less to send...
single fellahs more than married people. So I was stationed in Waterford, and... I
think ‘twas a month or two months at the time, I’m not sure, but I remember
anyway, people were dodging Christmas, and... you know, people were drafted in
for that, so I was sent up... over the Christmas period, and I think I spent two
months there. From Waterford city to Kiltyclogher County Leitrim.
Oh no, ‘twas just an ordinary Garda station, in the little village... of about... I
suppose a hundred or two hundred people. I don’t know how many were stationed
there that time, but they were all like myself, there was... probably two local Guards,
and a sergeant, and I was I suppose one of... about ten I suppose who were, who
came up from... the Waterford/Kilkenny Division filled different stations, and that
was one of the stations that they...
When you arrived... you might think like that someone would say look, we’ll drive
you down now to... this is, this is actually the line, or... no, I never saw! I never saw
the line or I never was shown... the line, I was told ‘twas down there, just down by
the bridge, down there, but we never went down, and you know, that was to me a
little... a little, I suppose... I thought if I was in charge that’s the first thing I would
do, was...Yeah, this is our area, and... but that was, that was it... and you did the
ordinary week of nights and the ordinary... earlies and that... and we spent
Christmas... over Christmas, I’d say I was one of the only Pioneers there.
And I remember Christmas day, I was the only fellah working.
Well, they were all working, but I was the only, So... I did all that, and we had
absolutely the most fantastic... lodgings I ever had, hot and cold water in the room,
back in nineteen seventy one or two.
Unbelievable now, unbelievable... the nurse, what was her name? She was an old
midwife nurse, and she had one daughter, and they were all winking at her.
But... she was a lovely lady, they were fantastic, I’d say she made no money out of
it.
1
�The grub was so... Oh supreme, yeah.
Oh yeah, ‘twould be oh full Christmas Diner yeah and she was, I tell you now the
food there was... now better than home if you know...
You’d be, I suppose you’d be assigned... you’d be given I suppose certain vehicles to
watch out for, or certain people to... if you did come across them, to log, to log
down same, to drive such roads... to drive, we’ll say the main... the main ones,
but... not necessarily down to the actual border, which may not, you know these
were... you see a lot of the roads... they were all coming into Kiltyclogher, now
especially, was one of these roads that was blocked off, so there wasn’t much good
in driving down there per se, because there was all these concrete prisms or...
Pylons in the middle of the road, you know, but other than that we didn’t get any
specific... you know, we were there as, I’d say, to me, looking back on it now, you
were there as a token, as a presence on the border, and sure we’d nothing...I wasn’t
told anyway.
Sure I didn’t question it, really, I didn’t question it, sure I was only a raw recruit
really, at the time, I mean I was only... joined the Guards in... March ’69, this was
seventy one or two, surely... you know... you were only beginning to get to know
people more than, you were still, and I was still only twenty two, twenty two years
of age. You did not question authority at that time.
Oh Jesus, not really, no [pause] there was another incident now, I just recalled it...
there was a reformatory school over in, was it Black...No, that’s in, that’s in
Galway... I’ll think of it now in a minute, but on Bloody Sunday we were sent, we
were sent there because they were expecting refugees, the Sunday after Bloody
Sunday, and that was over in... ‘twas one of these, the priest’s houses... where
they’re training priests, and... I’ll think of it in a minute... but I remember spending a
day, the full day over there, just patrolling around, walking around, and I met... I
remember... a fellah... and actually the, we... if we go back far enough, he’s... he
you know, came from Durrus, and I had... an uncle who joined the Guards from
Durrus, and they were actually related, so we had a... anyway eventually came, I
worked with him here in Cork afterwards... what is that place? No harm anyway, but
nothing arrived that day. I suppose ‘twas a contingency plan really, I mean the
Bloody Sunday was... a horrible day, and then it was... do we know if it was going to
flare up afterwards, and I suppose they had these places if people did, had to run
across or whatever, or get out, they had these billets, or these, ‘twas like these, one
of these schools, reformatory schools... ‘twas down in Blacklion I’d say, or...
2
�I’ll think of it now before I go, but... that was at another day, anyway as such...
but...
Oh I was only on one, one... I’ve a feeling ‘twas for two months, because of the
Christmas now and wanted to... and then you were young, I suppose the only good
thing about it, there was extra money in it, you got subsistence allowance, and that
was tax-free, and I suppose there was some bit of compensation for... but we used
travel up and down to home then, I suppose it was our long weekends off, and... ‘tis
only now, you’re, when you’ve children of your own, that you can understand what
they (my parents) were thinking... but... ‘cause I’d no fear, you know, you’ve no
fear, really... not... not in the slightest, like you know.
Yeah, there was a bit of drinking going on all right, but I just, I never drank until... I
won’t tell you when! When I broke it, but I broke it anyway, but I, I never drank at
the time, and then, I imagine now in days of... Christmas Days and days like that...
you were saddled with... and all these things, but... it didn’t matter to me, I mean if
you there doing your thing, so you might as well be doing something.
The phone now was a thing... you’d have to dial... you’d have to crank up the
machine... there was no such thing as the dialling, and you were told to be careful
about... phone numbers that... you were, it was alleged... that people were listening
in... you know? Do you know, as I know... from exchanges, that can happen, like
and it was just, just be careful and, yeah... because that was I suppose one of the
IRA’s avenues of getting information.
It wouldn’t be that much discussion of pliitics like, but... I mean I, from what I
understand a local married a Guard. But... she was completely... you know, you felt
completely at home with her, but then there was local Guards... staying with her as
well, the two local guys, one of them actually was from Fermanagh, he was a native
of Fermanagh, which was... just past the border... and I thought was... unusual, you
know, I did think... and [pause] but I never mixed, I never mixed with... people that
really, you know, I suppose I’d say... in our meetings, I’d often say what we did in
the winter time, when it snowed or anything, we were playing cards, you know, and
‘twas... harmless stuff, now.
Yeah, well you had, you hadn’t any... you hadn’t any, I suppose great uniform like
what I suppose they have... up to today. But still... it never bothered me that way,
right I never, I felt... I was absolutely delighted to join the Guards, when I, since I
was a child... I wanted to join the Guards.
3
�Well he’d be an uncle-in-law, through marriage, but there was no, there was no
connection that way, but... where I was from, we used to keep lodgers, and there
was always two or three Guards in the house, and I just had great respect for it,
like, and... since whenever I did, that was my, my aim at the time, and I
remember... joining and talking to the local fellah below, and he said ‘look’ he said,
‘go in there now’, he says, ‘you’ll be in there now’ he says ‘for about six months’ or
whatever it is, ‘keep your nose clean in there’ he says, ‘when you come out’ he says
‘you’ll have a good time’. And I absolutely loved it, loved it, now I mean there were,
you know I had ups and downs but... and when I left it, I had no problem with
leaving,
I was stationed in Waterford for three years, Buttevant for ten months, my mother
died... and I was transferred then to the city, and to traffic, and I spent my last nine
years at immigration. ‘Twas lovely, immigration was great for a start, but... the
influx came then, and it became stressful enough... people thought it was lovely
because you were in... you were dressed up like, but... could be stressful enough,
you know?
A Thursday morning, I couldn’t tell you what year now, but I’d say ‘twas ’72, I have
a feeling. I was on six to two, and... hoping the eight hours would go by, because
we were going home for the weekend, and we were going home with... a fellah by ,
in police station back in... He’s stationed back in Skib... I was on anyway, and
around, what... I would say it was around half past nine or ten, we could hear
some... some hammering and... like... I suppose machinery going below... at the
border, which would be... down a narrow road from the village, but you could not
actually see it... so [pause] I was in the car anyway, and... next thing is the sergeant
arrived, and he said, ‘come on’ he said ‘we’ll go and we’ll have a look... to see what’s
happening’... so I drove away and he said ‘come up here now’ he said ‘we’ll have a
vantage point here’ and we drove up and in through a kind of a... I suppose a small
hill where there was furze and heather... and that type of surface... and there was
no, I don’t think there was any kind of a road... so we stopped anyway, we could
look down and we could see... not... I suppose, as the crow flies they’d be about
four or five hundred yards away, the British Army, and they... I suppose reinforcing
the barriers at the, this kind of border road... so we were there looking, we’d... a
black Avenger car... and we’d no roof sign... and, we’d only our uniform on us, and
well... ‘twas a black car and, you could be identified if you wanted to be, I suppose,
but... there was no sign, there were no signs on the car like they are today or
anything like... so after about ten minutes anyway, we could hear... shooting...
‘Jaysus!’... now, it’s hard to say where it came from... but it looked like as if it came
from behind us... firing across at the... at the British Army, or whatever, whatever it
was down there... so... and next thing we could hear machine gun firing, [makes
shooting noises].
Not a fear of my life, like... you know yourself, the next time we’re going to, what’s
going on, you’re not going to get out of here now, you’d say that all right, but... I
remember it, I never had nightmares about it! You know what I mean? That to me is
afraid.
4
�So we, we lay on our, we got out of the car, and we threw ourselves down on the
ground, and kind of, half under the car, and next thing there was a lull, and it would
come again, from both sides, well we thought enough, now definitely it was the, the
machine gun was from the... from the north side, and I would think that the... it
sounded like rifle fire now to me, from behind us, which would be the south side...
and... after there was a lull came anyway, and the fellah who was with me, and he
said ‘come on’ he said, ‘we’ll try and get out of here’, so we put on our hats anyway,
see could we... see would they see us with our caps on, and... I got into the car and
tried to turn it, there was no space to turn it, I can recall, and I backing in, with this
Avenger, and eventually headed slowly, drove slowly, as they say you’re no threat!
[laughs] and... got out of the place, now it took us I suppose... by the time we got
up off our belly, into the car and ran it... it took us... three to four minutes before
we... we’ll say we got out of fire, and we went back down into the station, and... the
next thing the helicopter arrived, and ‘twas over us, and ‘twas over... I would say
‘twas over the station, like. ‘Twas in our, in Irish aerospace, we’ll say, and people, I
remember some local coming along, and he saying... ‘that shouldn’t be up there’, he
says ‘that’s over...’ and you know, and I was saying... ‘what can I do about this at
the present, go in there and make a complaint’ or whatever, so [pause] we were, we
wouldn’t take much notice, I mean... the fellah that was with me went in, and I
suppose he notified the authorities, I went in and I rang my mother... and I said...
‘we mightn’t be home this evening, there’s a, there’s a kind of an incident here’, and
I mentioned cross-border, and ‘shut up!’ he says, don’t say cross-border, he said,
‘because this could be an international... thing more than’, do you understand what
I’m saying? That, we’ll say if you...
Incident, like and I was... it meant nothing to me, an incident or same, but ‘twas
some... I suppose ‘twas an incident, seemingly ‘twas on the one o’clock news all
right, and... people at home heard it when I came... so... I finished my tour of
duty... at two o’clock, got into our car, three of us, and we drove off down to West
Cork... so, I wasn’t asked anymore reports on it.
Well, I’ll just give you one incident now, And this is just internal, now... and there
was... a man in charge of us we’ll say, not in the station now, but we’ll say from
Manorhamilton, he used come out visiting, and doing a parade, and we’d parade in
front of him... every now and again... and this fellah who... he, he, kind of [pause] a
good clump of hair behind, you know? And he was... he picked them and he said...
‘hi’... I won’t mention his name now, he says, he says ‘you’ he says ‘you go away
and get a haircut’ he says... and this to me now, the first bit of... someone talking to
authority, he says... ‘I will, superintendent’ he says, ‘when you forward to me’ he
says ‘my advance subsistence allowance’.
And he was right, and he was right, like, and your man had no, but they thought he
could pick him for, imagine now and me above on the border, and this... rubbish...
you know? But... I can still remember that... but, and your man then... he was a bit
of a... the Guard now, was a bit of a... you know, you know how a kind of a
5
�sloucher, like... Jaysus he became... he became a sergeant afterwards... kind of...
called in fellahs himself, like... I hate that... I fucking hate that... I do, like, Jaysus if
you’re not true to yourself... if I ever got I don’t think I’d change a day, like...
sincerely.
Looking, in hind... you know what I mean, people were maybe saying that the
Guards should be... in hindsight to me anyway, I think you were... you were a way
better off without them, because... you see Ireland being a neutral country, you’re
no, you’re no threat... right? And being without, you’re a Guard, unarmed Guard,
you were no threat, and that to me was a safeguard in itself.
You know all these things about Ireland now, you know, you’re loved nearly around
the country, , we’re not, we’re not going to, we’re not like Britain, like we’re not
going to plunder anyone, you know we haven’t the forces to do it, you’re no threat
to anyone, and that to me was, would be that...
6
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Green and Blue Across the Thin Line (<em>collection</em>) [NC]
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of 39 stories that were compiled as part of a project with the aim: "To develop a storytelling project reflecting the cooperation and interaction between former members of Royal Ulster Constabulary and former members of An Garda Síochána along the border from the establishment of the two Police Forces to 2001." (From the Green and Blue website.)
Extracts from the 39 recorded interviews were published in book format in 2014. The associated Green and Blue website contains full transcripts for 24 of the interviews. The website also contains 18 interview audio files (as of 22 January 2016).
URL
Non DC - URL of Organisation / Project
http://www.green-and-blue.org/
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Diversity Challenges Board
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014
Stories Collected
Non DC - Number of stories recorded as part of the project.
39
Stories Deposited
Non DC - Number of stories deposited with Accounts of the Conflict.
18
Collection Permission Form
Non DC - Collection permission form signed and returned.
Yes (signed: 21 March 2015)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Published book; and Web site
Language
A language of the resource
English
Delayed Access
Non DC - Yes/No on request for delayed access.
No
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Police Services; Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland; 1920s to 2001
Publication
A book, article, monograph etc.
Author
Author of the publication
Donal Cullinane
Date Type
Publication, Submission, Completion date etc.
Completion date 2014
Publication Title
Full title of publication, as it appears on item.
Transcript of audio interview.
Publication Status
Published, in Press, Unpublished, etc.
Published on-line
Number of Pages
6
Publisher Location
Place of publication: city / town
Website
Publisher
Diversity Challenges Board
Publication Type
Report, Book, Manual etc.
Transcript
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
<em>Untitled Story</em><span>, by </span><span>Donal Cullinane</span><span> (</span><em>story transcript</em><span>)</span>
Description
An account of the resource
Transcript (PDF) of the audio recording of interview with Donal Cullinane which was recorded as part of the Green and Blue – Across the Thin Line project.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Green and Blue – Across the Thin Line project
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF version of transcript
Language
A language of the resource
English
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Catalogue ID
Non DC - ID for the Catalogue entry that relates to this entry
2850
Diversity Challenges
Green and Blue
-
https://accounts.ulster.ac.uk/repo24/files/original/a143600a2e1691ac5974cf08add589f9.mp3
1c3fb3c8787a8cc27be2b87b020d94cd
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Green and Blue Across the Thin Line (<em>collection</em>) [NC]
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of 39 stories that were compiled as part of a project with the aim: "To develop a storytelling project reflecting the cooperation and interaction between former members of Royal Ulster Constabulary and former members of An Garda Síochána along the border from the establishment of the two Police Forces to 2001." (From the Green and Blue website.)
Extracts from the 39 recorded interviews were published in book format in 2014. The associated Green and Blue website contains full transcripts for 24 of the interviews. The website also contains 18 interview audio files (as of 22 January 2016).
URL
Non DC - URL of Organisation / Project
http://www.green-and-blue.org/
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Diversity Challenges Board
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014
Stories Collected
Non DC - Number of stories recorded as part of the project.
39
Stories Deposited
Non DC - Number of stories deposited with Accounts of the Conflict.
18
Collection Permission Form
Non DC - Collection permission form signed and returned.
Yes (signed: 21 March 2015)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Published book; and Web site
Language
A language of the resource
English
Delayed Access
Non DC - Yes/No on request for delayed access.
No
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Police Services; Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland; 1920s to 2001
Sound
A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds.
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
Transcription also available
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Audio File: MPEG-2 Audio Layer III (MP3)
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
21 minutes 38 seconds
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
192 kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
<em>Untitled Story</em><span>, by </span><span>Donal Cullinane</span><span> (</span><em>story audio</em><span>)</span>
Description
An account of the resource
Audio recording of interview with Donal Cullinane which was recorded as part of the Green and Blue – Across the Thin Line project.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Green and Blue – Across the Thin Line project
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Diversity Challenges Board
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014
Relation
A related resource
See also the Green and Blue website:
http://www.green-and-blue.org/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Audio (MP3)
Language
A language of the resource
English
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Catalogue ID
Non DC - ID for the Catalogue entry that relates to this entry
2850
Diversity Challenges
Green and Blue
-
https://accounts.ulster.ac.uk/repo24/files/original/02138e22f5c9be7766f6bc77955281c2.pdf
df6ca934e8095a60178019d94c938ca3
PDF Text
Text
Green & Blue Project
Con McCarthy Interview
I am seventy two. I’m from Listowel, County Kerry, yeah.
I was promoted from Kanturk in ’77, and I went to the border on the end of
November of that year, and I suppose if you want to get my own personal feelings
on it, I remember I thought I calculated the journey, and I was out by about twenty
five to thirty miles, it was longer than I thought, and I felt that, when I was in Sligo
I felt that, if I thought it was as far then, I’d nearly have turned home. However I
continued on, and I went to my base at Lifford, just across from Strabane... and in
peacetime there would be one sergeant I suppose, and four guards would be the
max., which is there now, in our time there was five sergeants and thirty five
guards. Accommodation was difficult to come by... communications at that time
were not great. Well even between stations, and across the border I suppose there
was a kind of a scramble telephone line in operation all right, but it was rarely used.
While the people I felt were quite nice and Lifford and... Donegal, the work was...
tough, a lot of checkpoints and I took up duty and the following day after arriving
with, newly promoted myself, and a unit of seven guards, the oldest twenty two,
and the youngest nineteen just, so basically you were on your own, you had to kind
of find your way.
I was thirty one, thirty two, that was it, you had to find your way, you had to try and
get understand the system, ‘twas, I had done very little of three relief work prior to
that, I was always in country stations, I thought it was extremely difficult for the
younger members, younger guards. They were subjected to an awful lot of
continuous checkpoint, the main body of their work was ninety per cent of it was...
six a.m. to two p.m. checkpoint, two p.m. to ten p.m. and ten to six, and you got a
week of nearly of either, and they learned very very little, I thought about the
normal policing of an area, this was different style due to the... the conflict, and
while they were alert and... did great work, I felt it was extremely difficult for them
to adjust, and they got very little grounding then in normal or natural policing, due
to the fact that timing constraints didn’t allow it. However I think I kept my unit
together, they were, I will say the products of very good homes anyway, these
young fellas, but they were thrown in I felt at the deep end, conditions were difficult
and weather was fairly cold.
I would say that the station was, would only accommodate shall we say at the best
of times a sergeant and four or five guards, and we had to make do with very
cramped conditions, and while we were there it was being renovated, and which
made it even more difficult for a period of nearly six months, and ‘twas all across a
winter... and it was very hard, when fellas got wet on duty. If you didn’t have good
digs, or accommodation, it was fairly rough the conditions, and fairly demanding
now, to say the least of it, and these young fellas like found it very hard to... shall
we socialise, because... you basically didn’t know who was who and what was what,
�and then the harsh hours, like the switching from one relief to another, didn’t give
you much time, however I, we kind of got them together. I remember, myself and
another sergeant that was in the same transfer up, there was four of us transferred
together, because we were the first... sergeants that were transferred permanently
to the border, we were permanent, we were transferred as such permanently, and
to cut down costs, basically because there was no temporary transfer, it was these,
and so we went up and our period of time up there was unknown to us, whether or
whether, how long it would be, but so we settled in the best we could, and we were
all roughly the same age, and we all had young families left back down at home,
Oh my wife and family stayed in Kanturk, I had a new house at the time, that time,
and Niall was only a matter of weeks old, and Kay wasn’t six... and I left and I had
to buy a car, some kind of a banger of a car for Maire, and... we couldn’t take, any
of us didn’t take our family to the border. I suppose one , ‘twouldn’t be the safest
thing to do, and secondly we wouldn’t, we couldn’t get accommodation, we found it
extremely difficult ourselves to get accommodation, and that’s the way, I mean next
door to us was Castlefin, which in peacetime maybe there might be only one guard
and a sergeant there, now maybe, and the same amount of men but there they
were also operating a three relief system, and... ‘twas difficult, shall we say, in the
extreme, and the weather then, I suppose I had all my service down south, and you
mightn’t think it, but when you’re up there it is on a permanent basis, I would say
winter and summer, to be three to four degrees colder, it was one of the first things
I noticed, it was and, however we just had to bow to doing what we were supposed
to do, and there was a lot of supervision, and I suppose, if you... I suppose put the
wrong foot forward or did something you could spark off an international kind of a
political incident, unknown to yourself, you’d want to be fairly long-headed now, and
as I say you want to cut, measure twenty times before you cut once.
I was very conscious of that, and... then I suppose the most difficult policing of a
country is for any policeman I think is political crime... ordinary criminality is quite
different from subversive activity, and it’s amazing who would be supporting the
subversion and the political views and ideas come to the fore, and you don’t know
how to, it’s difficult to deal with it, and you may not think that everyone that’s not
interfering with you might be in your corner, shall we say, they may have politically
different views and viewed all policemen as possibly a little bit suppressive, maybe I
don’t know, that’s the impression, so you had to be extremely cautious now, and
then there was a number of atrocities that... my... my view on it was some major
atrocities that I would say in any normal situation a lot of atrocities that never hit
the headlines, never made the news. Hit the public arena like, happened above in
our area, there was some... ferocious arsons and assaults and shootings and it’s only
the real major incidents that made in on to the media, yeah I mean behind the
scenes I mean there was a lot more going on than you would think, I remember
quite well that... very shortly before I went up I think, a young fella from Donegal,
he had joined the RUC and he was a Catholic... he, on one of his visits home
incidentally he was shot and, shot dead and with his girlfriend one night, and... it’s
very difficult to get a... society can close very much in this, well there’s an element
�of fear in everyone, they may... good people might like to... to get involved, but the
fear factor always I think came to the fore, and that’s why it was difficult to get
knowledge and difficult... on incidents and difficult enough to solve things and I
suppose, we were on the side of southern side, and I suppose the people around
Donegal along the border there, Donegal... really would be very au fait with what
was happening really inside in the north, and the causes of it, much more than the
people further south like here in Cork now, in Kerry, but... they held their own
views on it, and I suppose they would be silently supporting... those and... however
we carried on, and whether we, with the Army I suppose, we kept,
The Irish Army, now we kept a lid on it, I suppose as good as we possibly could on
our side, and an even hand as much as even-handed ways, as the circumstances
would, would allow, shall we say. There was one evening I feel that there was an
RUC man, and I think he came across, to Killygordon, if I think, remember, across to
the south, he was a farmer’s son and he came across in a tractor and trailer for a
load of artificial manure to a creamery there, and on his way back he was shot,
killed, and incidentally the... the car that was involved burst through a checkpoint,
and subsequently was found in our area, and it... the whole thing now was fairly
difficult for three or four days to say the least of it, not going into it in any further
detail.
Oh indeed there was, great tension, and there was demands on either side and
these things can bring political questions to the fore very much, and the Guards
must be ever conscious of that, and that’s the way, they’re both I suppose
interlinked, but I spent, what fourteen months there, ‘twas difficult to get home it
was... a seven hour non-stop journey, two hundred and sixty five miles Very bad
roads then, at that time, in ’77, ’78 and I used to come home possibly twice a month
in one month, and three times another, and that would be after finishing early at
two p.m. and I’d be up since five and I’d finish at two and drive, have a bit of grub
and a shower, and drive continuously until I arrive home, and the kids were very
small and they would be all excited and they would, I’d be exhausted and they were
excited, and you had two forces pulling, and not possibly in the right, in the same
direction, but again... we survived it. Maire got Myra to visit, that was one of the
guards, the sergeants from Dublin, and his wife was in the last... days nearly of
pregnancy and eventually, it was I actually got the house, and I gave it to him...
because he was in the worse situation than I was, and he came, he brought her up,
they had three other young kids, and she had the baby and everything was fine, and
‘twas a place of anchor for Myra and my kids when they came up afterwards and
they used to have a great time together, you know, they visited maybe four or five
times, well four times anyway I suppose while we were there, shall we say... the
effects of... that period of policing in myself, I... I, it didn’t change me, I don’t think
as a person, it changed me... on my outlook on the values real and substantial
values of life, as to what all this was about.
Well... I suppose it’s back to the human being, and the human nature in all of us,
and I suppose it’s... the power of one society over another, or man’s inhumanity to
�man, or what way would I put it, but I suppose that’s the basis of the whole thing,
if... truthfully, and I’ve lived through lessons which I don’t want to go into, but if our
country wasn’t occupied we wouldn’t have, I don’t think we’d have that problem, full
stop. That’s what it was about, and while the majority of the people wanted to deal
with it by peaceful means, there was an element that thought otherwise was the
best approach, and that caused extreme difficulty for... all police forces involved, for
both armies involved, and for many many families and it created some great sad
occasions for many, I, that way I, it made me think more deeply about society in
general, not that I felt that I endured the hardships of the whole thing well enough,
I don’t think I was personally scarred... by it, but it made me think as to why we
can’t, if there was a little bit of peace and not... we were all a little bit more
accommodating in sharing with one another, then these things mightn’t happen, but
I suppose... society is such, what effects did it have on my family? I think... the
third, I have three girls and a boy, he’s the youngest [pause] the third girl was just
about two, two and a half and I think my coming and going affected her more than
anybody else. She was at an age just, she couldn’t understand why I’d come home
tonight, late and I’d be there for two, forty eight hours, and I’d put ‘em to bed, then
we’ll say at half six, seven o’clock, and when she’ll wake next morning, I was gone.
She was all the time, why was this... it took her a while, and incidentally she’s the
only one that’s joined the Guards, she’s a guard now herself! Isn’t that strange? It is,
and she’s quite happy in it, and grew to be big strong girl, bless her, she’s five foot
ten, but... the son [pause] we, when we came from the border, he was too young,
but he, during my year and a half there and he was couple of months before I went,
it was, but anyway by the time we were moving house, after selling our house in
Kanturk and moving down here, he was at that stage he was just two then, coming
up to two, and he was talking, quite well, and the day we left actually, having sold
our house, and had moved out all our stuff, and just coming down to anchor here, I
remember well, he had no stammer or anything, he was talking perfectly, and on
the way down, we were all quite sad leaving it, and to be honest, and he was in the
back of the car, and he started repeating, he started calling Maire ‘mam-mam-mam’,
and we came down here... it took him ages, a good, when I say ages now, maybe
six months to settle, he was, as far as he was concerned, he was just only living in
Skibbereen, but his home was in Kanturk, and during that period, up to... he
developed, we feel as a result of it, the shock, a stammer we were told subsequent,
we took him to every specialist, speech therapist and specialist that we found out
about, and eventually we were told he’d be eleven... before he would overcome it,
and between ten and eleven... and at eleven years of age, I, it was a remarkable
thing... he was cleared, that stopped. That is the truth, if you go in and ask Maire,
it’s the very same thing, and the only thing we did was, we were told to speak to
him at times, slowly, and when he’d get excited, ask him to slow down, and that,
that was the therapy, there was nothing more complicated than that, but it’s yielded
great results anyway, as far as we were concerned, so we got back, and he’s now a
grown man, he’s married and he’s fine, but that little thing, it took its toll, I suppose,
and on the family, I, going back again, again he was going to go in the Guards, he’s
in engineering now, but he was going to go in the Guards one time, and, but he did
the interview and got it and all, but he didn’t travel, and maybe, I wouldn’t have
minded him, you know, I wouldn’t mind, in peacetime now, but I joined I suppose...
in 1964 as a [pause] and people say like, there’s such a thing, he, he was a born
�policeman, I don’t know whether I was or not, but I joined as they say for the want
of money, for a job, truthfully, but I adapted I think well to it, and I hope I did
[pause] a reasonably good job, and that I was honest and decent with the public,
and that you know when you join you know you’re not joining a shall we say, a
popularity contest, you’re not, but so... the ups and the downs, like you have to take
them, and if you feel you were basically right and honest, you don’t, I wouldn’t have
any regrets, any... my daughter is saying it, but she’s in the in-service training
school in Cork, she’s not out... at all, but it made no difference, if she was, she was,
and that’s the way it fell for her, but...
I did have contact with the RUC on a number of occasions, on as I say, through
the... scramble telephone, and we had a couple of occasions like, we had to deal
with mental patients that incidentally, got out... got free inside in the six counties,
and came across to us, and these things like have to be dealt with very very
cautiously like, and we did, ‘twasn’t a question just handing them straight across the
border again, they had to be put into... the mental institutions in the southern side,
and had to be properly negotiated and written and dealt with, officially to get them
back out again, but that was happened. There were a number of shootings then,
Lifford has a place called Croghan Heights, it’s a very high area, like just out here
now, but it’d be closer to the town, and the outskirts of the town, and Strabane
police station was kind of inside, in the, more or less in the centre of the town, but
in a low-lying area enough, but it was encased in about, oh I’d say about at that
time, four or six different encasings of wire, but we used to have to be watching this
on a constant basis, but you mightn’t have left the place, or some incident might
have happened, and there’d be men taken away and there’d be shots fired from
there, because they could have a good view, across into the, in at the RUC station,
and beyond... ‘twas difficult too, they’d always try and escape across into, when
something would happen, as they say across in the north, they could come across
to... Lough Swilly, across the river, you know, the... and the Foyle as it was known
there, which ‘twas the Finn up as far as Lifford, and Strabane, and as you know
there’s only the... the bridge between the two places, and there was good
interaction there now, those two towns, and... we were, shall we say we had to deal
with a good number of incidents now, and there was, I remember one evening it
was... it was very very tragic and very... I suppose ‘twas a murderous act, happened
in the north where somebody rang up and pretended to be the parish priest of suchand-such a place in... Derry on the road into Derry city down there, and [pause] and
but some people had... some fella had been left outside his door, and he was dying
and the RUC went to go out, and on the way out they were ambushed and, two or
three of them killed and there was... definitely the river was being used and they
had their, the escape route plotted and, and they came down through the fields and
across into boats and ‘twas very difficult terrain now, this was difficult terrain like to,
to search it, and especially when you didn’t know the lie of the land, and we spent
days searching it now, and there was finds but there was some of the, I I think as
far as I can recollect, there was some of the fellas got all right, but ‘twas a major
incident now, there was police inspector I think killed, and there was one or two of
them very seriously injured there, they were fired on, and their jeep crashed and
overturned and... but so, all in all, as I say, we, again there was an awful lot of
arsons there of... can I say it was the other... persuasion, Protestant persuasion that
�had people in the south, their... farmyards and stuff were being burned out by a cell
of the IRA basically, oh yes.
Well they would be there, you see yeah, because there would be certain people who
would believe they’d be sympathetic to... the other side, whether that was, that was
the belief anyway I suppose, and when you have that belief I suppose these things
happen. Well we used to be going... constantly patrolling there, well there’d be fellas
on checkpoints, there’d be constant patrols, and there would be spots patrols, as
well, where you’d just, you’d drive down the road and you stop here and you
mightn’t be stopping in that place again for a month, but just kind of unsuspecting
stop and checkpoints as well, along with the permanent ones that were manned,
with the, we had the Customs, the Army and the Guards together, and you’d the
same with the other side.
We could see the [British] Army, I mean if you were in, you were in Lifford now,
and... when you get to know the lie of the land like, and you were driving kind of
west towards Stranorlar and... Ballybofey, the road goes parallel with the river, on
the southern side, equally on the north side, you go from Strabane on into Claudy,
which would be predominantly republican area, you could see the aerials, you could
see the RUC cars driving along, and you could see the aerials of the RUC, or the
British Army trucks... going along but, we never met them as such, face-to-face.
There was a lot of, a good bit of smuggling of stuff going on there too like, under
the cover of this, like, ‘twas, there was... cattle being smuggled. But... there was a
good bit of smuggling went on too, with cattle and you name it.
Oh I go into the north I visited, yeah. I visited the north... a lot, actually, I was in
Derry I’d say at least ten, twelve times at that time, I did, I just wanted to see what
the lie of the land was, and how you’d be, shall we say, treated, I mean you’d have
to go through the checkpoints, and which we did, we had to produce, we always had
our ID cards and driving licence and stuff, and... we went into the Bogside and into
Free Derry at that time, just wanted to see what it was all about, maybe it wasn’t
the safest thing to do now, with a southern registered car, but we did it anyway. I
remember one day myself and a couple of the young fellas off the unit, we went in
about, finished at two o’clock, we went in about three, half past three... and it’s, I
think, I forget now when it was... but I think there was a Foyle Valley... Festival on,
and the Guildhall anyway got a bit of a damaging that day, and there were a lot of
prefabs at the back, and we witnessed a share of them being set on fire, from the
distance now, and that again like would set off, spark off all kinds of moments of,
but thankfully I was... never felt in danger, while... there were one or two little
bombs went off all right, but I don’t know whether it was... being... naive or not, but
well we took precautions now, because the car I got, we got the car that was
involved in that shooting that I referred to earlier and we got it inside in a wood,
later that, the following morning, after being out all night, and the first thing you
would say, we saw that the doors were open and the lights were left on, and it was
driven in, it was slammed off a tree and, first thing you’d say to yourself, ‘is this
thing booby-trapped?’ You would have to be thinking that way, kind of security
�conscious, and everybody was alert enough, and... I suppose time and when, I
suppose, you know effective policing is effective policing, but how far does it go in
so far... goes to a certain point, but I always remember what John Hume says, said
like that you must... you must join in unified hearts and the minds of the people, I
think, and after that, when that did happen, we came with it, I suppose, and a lot of
peace, and... tranquillity and I suppose a lot of other benefits for, for others, for
everyone, for everyone, to society in general, I suppose when you go up first like,
and I went through the north a good few times, coming and going, I didn’t, I, to
vary the journey like to take the border more ways, I often went to Dublin, got the
train to Dublin, left my car in Dublin, and drove through the north, up through
Monaghan, and Aughnacloy, and on through the, Omagh, and out in Strabane,
and... it’s amazing like, the feeling you get I suppose when you’d see the red, the
red, white and blue, like but, and then you get pockets of either, and you know that
then but I suppose these are the experiences of life, and ‘twas of our time, and we
were of the age and we had to deal with it, and you know... I don’t know did it do
me any harm?
Well it was now, it was, the fact that like that you were so far from home, and family
life was... I mean when a man is married, I suppose and to be thrown into this
situation, it would no other, other choice, but into digs again, I found that like, there
was an element of loneliness in it, especially, you know when you were off duty,
like... it was, like, and I could see like that if you weren’t as strong, you’d want to be
fairly strong and level-headed, you could, even though I never drank, say at all at
any stage of my life, but I could see how fellas like they weren’t able to hack it, it
could affect them, now that danger was there, and I think that like affected the RUC
by, because I used to, as a delegate I was at their conferences on a few occasions
up in the north, as a fraternal delegate from... and we detected that, we listened to
their motions and discussions, and ‘twas a big factor in their lives like, because not
alone were they watching themselves, their wives and their children, it wasn’t, you
see it isn’t just watching in the morning, you have to watch where, come out when
you, after parking the car to do a bit of shopping, you have to come back again, and
you have to check and check and re-check, and keep re-checking, and that makes
life very, very stressful, there’s no doubt about it, like and I think it took its toll on a
lot of... yeah it’s difficult for a lot of the fellas that were kind of permanently working
up there too, there was a certain amount of fellas that were... from that we’ll say
guards were on Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan, that area and a lot of them were
maybe close to home, well then they were kind of stuck with this, year in, year out,
like and an awful lot of them gave their lives at it, the majority of their service, thirty
years at it, which was... the Garda Síochána then like was a different job to the
similar man down here, there’s no doubt in the world about it, and it’s amazing
how... following that pattern of... policing up there... how you could latch on to it,
and how, I had a, I can specifically remember kind of thinking, like... you have to
adapt, it’s slightly different here, people expect a different, you had to, there was,
you weren’t looking over your shoulder and, to stop that yourself, and to think,
�It is, you know, yeah you’re going from totally two different situations, and how I
got to deal with this, and ‘twould take you a little bit, there was an adjustment
period, I thought there, even though we were always conscious to do exactly what
suited the given situation, yeah you know, but... I don’t know is that of any value to
you or not?
The same job, and while you must look after yourselves, yourself, you also must
think of those like, and try and guide, guide them, a young fella of nineteen like, it
was a lot of responsibility, a lot of, there’s no doubt in the world, and I used always
try to tell them, and advocate like that I think that, the fellas of twenty three now
have been up there, and one fella had been up there for, since he was nineteen,
now he had four years of it done, and I always said to him, look I think you’ve
enough of this work done, and I, if I were you, I would look for a transfer, and
incidentally, each one of the unit, I was down here, and I had to go back to a
number of court cases afterwards, and I met him, because they were involved with
me, and... and they all had got out, but like, they I think the system too recognised
that there was a necessity for this thing, because you could become a bit of a robot
there I think. Not knowing how to, I mean newly enacted laws could pass you by
there fairly quickly other than those, there were those that were relevant to kind of
subversion, subversive crime, and there was a new instruction coming out about
that, and you know very very often, very frequently, and... so, sin é [that’s it].
Tá fáilte romhat [you’re welcome].
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Green and Blue Across the Thin Line (<em>collection</em>) [NC]
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of 39 stories that were compiled as part of a project with the aim: "To develop a storytelling project reflecting the cooperation and interaction between former members of Royal Ulster Constabulary and former members of An Garda Síochána along the border from the establishment of the two Police Forces to 2001." (From the Green and Blue website.)
Extracts from the 39 recorded interviews were published in book format in 2014. The associated Green and Blue website contains full transcripts for 24 of the interviews. The website also contains 18 interview audio files (as of 22 January 2016).
URL
Non DC - URL of Organisation / Project
http://www.green-and-blue.org/
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Diversity Challenges Board
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014
Stories Collected
Non DC - Number of stories recorded as part of the project.
39
Stories Deposited
Non DC - Number of stories deposited with Accounts of the Conflict.
18
Collection Permission Form
Non DC - Collection permission form signed and returned.
Yes (signed: 21 March 2015)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Published book; and Web site
Language
A language of the resource
English
Delayed Access
Non DC - Yes/No on request for delayed access.
No
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Police Services; Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland; 1920s to 2001
Publication
A book, article, monograph etc.
Author
Author of the publication
Con McCarthy
Date Type
Publication, Submission, Completion date etc.
Completion date 2014
Publication Title
Full title of publication, as it appears on item.
Transcript of audio interview.
Publication Status
Published, in Press, Unpublished, etc.
Published on-line
Number of Pages
8
Publisher Location
Place of publication: city / town
Website
Publisher
Diversity Challenges Board
Publication Type
Report, Book, Manual etc.
Transcript
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
<em>Untitled Story</em><span>, by </span><span>Con McCarthy </span><em>(story transcript)</em>
Description
An account of the resource
Transcript (PDF) of the audio recording of interview with Con McCarthy which was recorded as part of the Green and Blue – Across the Thin Line project.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Green and Blue – Across the Thin Line project
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF version of transcript
Language
A language of the resource
English
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Catalogue ID
Non DC - ID for the Catalogue entry that relates to this entry
2868
Diversity Challenges
Green and Blue
-
https://accounts.ulster.ac.uk/repo24/files/original/97133bc4800b2f99edb0fb77dc93405a.mp3
40d737536157a3d4137bdb5fa61d2769
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Green and Blue Across the Thin Line (<em>collection</em>) [NC]
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of 39 stories that were compiled as part of a project with the aim: "To develop a storytelling project reflecting the cooperation and interaction between former members of Royal Ulster Constabulary and former members of An Garda Síochána along the border from the establishment of the two Police Forces to 2001." (From the Green and Blue website.)
Extracts from the 39 recorded interviews were published in book format in 2014. The associated Green and Blue website contains full transcripts for 24 of the interviews. The website also contains 18 interview audio files (as of 22 January 2016).
URL
Non DC - URL of Organisation / Project
http://www.green-and-blue.org/
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Diversity Challenges Board
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014
Stories Collected
Non DC - Number of stories recorded as part of the project.
39
Stories Deposited
Non DC - Number of stories deposited with Accounts of the Conflict.
18
Collection Permission Form
Non DC - Collection permission form signed and returned.
Yes (signed: 21 March 2015)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Published book; and Web site
Language
A language of the resource
English
Delayed Access
Non DC - Yes/No on request for delayed access.
No
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Police Services; Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland; 1920s to 2001
Sound
A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds.
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
Transcription also available
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Audio File: MPEG-2 Audio Layer III (MP3)
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
39 minutes 12 seconds
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
192 kbps
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
<em>Untitled Story</em><span>, by </span><span>Con McCarthy </span><em>(story audio)</em>
Description
An account of the resource
Audio recording of interview with Con McCarthy which was recorded as part of the Green and Blue – Across the Thin Line project.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Green and Blue – Across the Thin Line project
Subject
The topic of the resource
The experiences of former police officers from the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC; Northern Ireland) and the Garda Síochána (GS; Republic of Ireland), especially in relation to the border between the two jurisdictions.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Diversity Challenges Board
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014
Relation
A related resource
See also the Green and Blue website:
http://www.green-and-blue.org/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Audio (MP3)
Language
A language of the resource
English
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Catalogue ID
Non DC - ID for the Catalogue entry that relates to this entry
2868
Diversity Challenges
Green and Blue
-
https://accounts.ulster.ac.uk/repo24/files/original/ec7932fa19c0c1af22449395d4af6d24.pdf
f39195f679fa9da5afccaf56ce0e6db0
PDF Text
Text
dc
Diversity
Challenges
‘A
project
supported
by
PEACE
III
Programme
managed
for
the
Special
EU
Programmes
Body
by
the
Community
Relations
Council/Pobal
Consortium’.
Green & Blue Project
Andy Galloway Interview 14/10/13
I joined the Royal Ulster Constabulary in August 1981, and my first station was
Rosslea, in Fermanagh, in south east Fermanagh. Prior to being allocated that
station I didn’t even know where Rosslea was, I’m a county Antrim man, so I knew
very little of the geography of Fermanagh at that time. I arrived out to this place in
the south east corner of Fermanagh and found myself in a station that was literally a
mile and a half from the border with county Monaghan, and I found myself very
quickly listening to Garda on a daily basis, because in those days in our police
stations and in our police cars we had a thing called the x-ray radio set. The x-ray
radios were aerial to aerial radios and they had very short range. They were ideal
for the RUC and the Garda to communicate with each other, the radios were not
recorded, so they were quite often used for ordering fish and chips or cigarettes or
all sorts of other things. But it allowed us to have conversations with our colleagues
directly across the border and primarily they were used for vehicle checks, because
the Garda would put their vehicles across to us, and we would put ours across to
them, so we could check vehicles on our own systems. And that was my first
introduction really with interaction with An Garda Síochána. At that stage I never
met them, but most days I heard them talking, and occasionally we would talk to
them via radio, or alternatively in every police station we had a direct line to a
corresponding Garda station. In Rosslea, our corresponding Garda station was
Scotstown. Incidentally it was many, many, many years later before I ever knew
where Scotstown was, before I actually crossed the border and found it, and found
that it was definitely a village, perhaps even smaller than Rosslea. But every station
along the border would have a direct line to their corresponding Garda station, so
communications was good, but we rarely met.
The xray radios were short range, and the difficulty would have been how far away
the person you were talking to was. Ours worked quite well, and they worked quite
well because we were really working in a very compact area. Even though we never
met, and even though we were on the other side of a land boundary, we were
constantly almost driving parallel to each other around the border, and so I think for
us, we found the x-ray sets worked incredibly well. Now if we had wanted in
Rosslea to talk to Enniskillen on the x-ray set, it wouldn’t have worked, and perhaps
if the cars in Lisnaskea had been up on high ground we might have been able to
reach them, but certainly for the vehicles just across the border, just within a five
mile radius it worked really really well. As a consequence we stopped using the
official radio net, most of the time the x-ray set was much more informal. It was
typical for somebody, the station duty officer, it was typical for him to realise that he
�dc
Diversity
Challenges
‘A
project
supported
by
PEACE
III
Programme
managed
for
the
Special
EU
Programmes
Body
by
the
Community
Relations
Council/Pobal
Consortium’.
was running out of something like milk or cigarettes, and to call a car and say, ‘could
you bring me in two pints?’ or something like that, and it wasn’t beer, he was talking
about milk! That was literally how that happened. So the x-ray set was quite useful
in that regard. Now when I say order fish and chips, in Rosslea we never got an
order for fish and chips, because it so happened that had there been a fish and chip
shop at the time, which there wasn’t, it was unlikely that they would have served us.
Because the circumstances of 1981, you have to realise that this is immediately
following the period of the hunger strikes, and Bobby Sands had been the MP for
Fermanagh/South Tyrone when he died on hunger strike. Rosslea was an area
where he had a significant amount of support. So you have to remember that all of
the shops in Rosslea bar one refused to serve the police. So there only was one
shop in the village where we could shop, it so happened.
The first time I met a member of the Garda was just about six, seven months after
arriving in Rosslea. The next police station along the border from us was
Newtownbutler. Newtownbutler was perhaps seven, eight miles away and all of the
border stations had a system where we paired up with each other. That meant that
if we had to cover for each other we were able to do so. For example on this
particular day in question, the night before Newtownbutler had had a function for
somebody who was leaving the police station. So they went out the night before and
we covered the late turn for them, and we also agreed to take any calls that they
had on the following morning, and they would then start later on, perhaps around
lunchtime. They would provide their own station duty officer, but we would take
their calls, and generally speaking you didn’t get any calls. Crime was very very low,
and unless somebody had a road traffic accident it was unlikely that you were going
to get called out! However on one particular morning we did get a call from
Newtownbutler, and the call was that a local farmer reported having dead sheep in
his land. It was a case of sheep worrying by what he described as a stray dog, and
the call was literally right on the border. It was literally in the land which goes right
up to the dotted line at Clones, not on the main road from Newtownbutler to Clones
but on the back road, and we were asked would we attend. This was a little bit
unusual for us in Rosslea because there was a significant difference between
Newtownbutler and Rosslea at that time. In Rosslea we didn’t drive anywhere in
daylight, it was much much much too dangerous. Just two years before I arrived
two police officers had died in a fatal explosion just outside the village, so we didn’t
drive anywhere in daylight. In Newtownbutler, oddly enough which was only five
miles away, they were still patrolling night and day in vehicles, so we did have to get
across to Newtownbutler, but we weren’t able to drive in marked or in an obvious
police vehicle. We had a car that we kept for the purpose, it could have been an
Audi, it could have been a Renault, it might even have been a Lada for those who
�dc
Diversity
Challenges
‘A
project
supported
by
PEACE
III
Programme
managed
for
the
Special
EU
Programmes
Body
by
the
Community
Relations
Council/Pobal
Consortium’.
might remember those awful cars! I can’t remember what it was, but myself and a
colleague put on civilian jackets over the top of our uniform, lifted our rifles, got all
of our kit together, got into the car, and made our way across to Newtownbutler by
the back roads. At no stage once we got out of the village did we really stick to the
main roads because our big concern of course was that this might have been an
invitation for an attack on us, although the station duty officer in Newtownbutler
knew the farmer concerned and he was very confident that it was a genuine call.
The other thing the station officer in Newtownbutler did for us was he contacted the
Garda in Clones. He lifted the direct line to Clones and said, ‘guys we have sheep
worrying at such-and-such a place, is there any possibility you could give us a little
bit of support?’ This was normal practice and we anticipated that on arrival in the
vicinity we would find a Garda vehicle as well. Off we drove, we had a map in our
hand, and a set of directions from Newtownbutler as to how to get to where we
were going because neither of us really knew, and eventually, yes we found
ourselves at the scene and found a quite annoyed farmer. I think perhaps it was
maybe two or three dead lambs in a field, and quite a sorry situation because the
rest of his flock of course was also quite distressed. So we did what we do, we
interviewed him, we took a statement, it didn’t take all of that long, we looked
around, we sympathised with him, and having left, having got all the details that we
required, we decided we would go across to the bridge. The bridge over the river
was literally the border at this point, and there was a member of the Garda. He was
leaning up against the bonnet of his car watching us with quite a bemused smile on
his face. So we took a walk across and introduced ourselves, being very careful of
course to meet in the centre of the bridge, that we wouldn’t contravene international
sovereignty in any way! Considering that myself and my colleague were both in
uniform and carrying rifles and had hand guns, we thought my goodness if we step
across the line, what’ll happen? So we met, we shook hands, we had a conversation,
as police officers across the world do when they get together. We talked about the
job, we talked about all sorts of things as would happen, and we talked about the
sheep worrying. We said, ‘well it’s a stray dog, and we think the dog has came from
your side of the border’, and the Garda smiled at us, and said, “oh it does”. He said
“don’t worry, I know all about the dog, I know where it’s from”. We said, “but how
do you know where the dog’s from?” “Well”, he says “I just live up the road”. For
me this was amazing because here was myself and a colleague, and we couldn’t
even think about living anywhere close to the border. We had went through all of
these security precautions just to come to answer a sheep worrying call, we were
armed to the teeth and we were anticipating at any moment that gunshots were
going to break out and break the morning silence, and here was a Garda... not
armed, not accompanied by anybody, not concerned about anything in the whole
world, and he lived literally just, you know almost within spitting distance of the
�dc
Diversity
Challenges
‘A
project
supported
by
PEACE
III
Programme
managed
for
the
Special
EU
Programmes
Body
by
the
Community
Relations
Council/Pobal
Consortium’.
border. And that was my first encounter with a member of An Garda Síochána.
We never heard what happened to the dog, as happens. One of two things will
have happened with the dog, the dog will have been sorted out properly, the Garda
will have went to the owner and the dog will have been put down. Or the Garda will
have went to the owner and the dog will have been chained up. Either way it dealt
with the sheep worrying, and we were able to close the file, I suppose.
It is unlikely that, I’m guessing I suppose in those days he would have went through
his own farm insurance, or something like that.
In the 1980s things changed dramatically, and that little window of opportunity
where you were able to drive about, by 1983 - 1984 that was beginning to change.
by 1985 I think all of the border stations all became no-drive areas, and police
officers went in for so many days at a time. They were flown in and flown out, and
that did have an impact, but the communications, certainly the radio
communications and telephone communications continued. I know that other
colleagues who, I had left the border at that stage, but I know that other colleagues
did keep in regular contact with their corresponding numbers...
I suppose the next interesting occasion that I had to meet the Garda, whilst still in
the RUC, was many years later. I remember in 1995, by that stage I was stationed
in Enniskillen, and this was in the period post-ceasefire, there was a fair amount of
relaxation and we were starting to experiment and do things that we hadn’t done
before. I was going in one night for night duty. We started night duty at a quarter
to twelve. I was driving into Enniskillen down the Dublin Road, and I came across
this big red road sign, sitting at the side of the road, and it said ‘Stop. Garda
Checkpoint’. And I thought, ‘hmm that looks like it’s not in the right place’, which of
course it wasn’t. It was on the Lisbellaw side of Enniskillen, it was most definitely
nowhere near the jurisdiction it should have been in. It was quite obvious that
somebody had lifted it on the southern side of the border for a bit of a prank and
brought it with them and set it up nicely on the side of the road. I went on into
work, we paraded for duty, we were detailed our car crews, and I was in the second
car crew that night, driving it with a probationer. I mentioned to my sergeant what
I had found on the road coming in, and I said, ‘”if you’re happy enough I’m going to
go out and lift it, throw it in the boot and take it out to Blacklion”. There was a
method in my madness, because I knew that most of the time you were guaranteed
to have a Garda standing on the little mini roundabout at Blacklion. And if he wasn’t
standing there, maybe in his guardroom. And I was fairly convinced that there was
�dc
Diversity
Challenges
‘A
project
supported
by
PEACE
III
Programme
managed
for
the
Special
EU
Programmes
Body
by
the
Community
Relations
Council/Pobal
Consortium’.
a good opportunity here for a cup of tea. But it was also a Friday night, and what I
hadn’t anticipated was, having lifted the road sign, put it into the boot of the car,
and drove all the way out to Belcoo, and then slipped across into Blacklion, and we
were in an armoured car (it was probably an armoured Ford Sierra) it wasn’t marked
in any way, but it was for everybody who seen them on a daily basis obviously a
police car. But I had sort of hoped, ‘yeah, we’ll drive across, park at the front of the
station, and nobody will notice’. What I hadn’t anticipated was there was a crowd of
people standing outside the pub opposite, so of course as soon as we got out of the
vehicle, and we were in uniform, the roars and the shouts and the jeers started. So
we had to very quickly hand over the road sign, very quickly tell him the story of
where we got it, and sadly the cup of tea wasn’t forthcoming. We had to very
quickly disappear back towards Belcoo and get back into Northern Ireland
jurisdiction again. Otherwise I think our presence would have brought about an
international incident that would have made the news! So we decided discretion is a
better part of valour, we thanked him and off we went.
In 1998 we had the Belfast Agreement, the Good Friday Agreement, which brought
about the Patton Report into policing, which I think was something like a hundred
and eighty seven recommendations, or something like that, or a hundred and ninety
one. There was a lot of them anyway! One of those particular recommendations
was that there should be exchange visits between PSNI and An Garda Síochána...
and of course, it was one of those recommendations that nobody noticed. In 2006
an email was circulated to all officers in PSNI to find out if anybody wished to take
part in this particular scheme. There was three areas of interest. One was drugs, I
wasn’t involved in Drugs Branch, so that wasn’t going to happen. One was traffic
policing, and I wasn’t in Traffic Branch, so that wasn’t going to happen. And the
third was IT and it just so happened that I was one of those people that everybody
came to with their IT problems. So I thought, ‘hmm, I could probably do that’. So I
applied and yeah, I made a little bit of history, because I became the first candidate
on IT, and in January 2007 we made history, three of us, three constables. We
were the first constables to do a joint visit to An Garda Síochána from the Police
Service of Northern Ireland. In reality we were the first three constables from the
north to serve in Dublin since pre-partition, which wasn’t I suppose as much of a
deal to us at the time until we actually reflected on what we were doing. So as a
consequence I had the privilege of living in Dublin for two whole months. Our
accommodation was paid for by our home service. We found a very nice hotel in
Fleet Street, in Temple Bar and the three of us lived there quite happily for nine
whole weeks! I have to say that I spent nine weeks in Phoenix Park, I worked in
their IT Branch, which is actually quite big. I found myself in an office with a
�dc
Diversity
Challenges
‘A
project
supported
by
PEACE
III
Programme
managed
for
the
Special
EU
Programmes
Body
by
the
Community
Relations
Council/Pobal
Consortium’.
sergeant and two Garda, all of whom were female, and their job was very much
around publications. For that nine weeks I found myself proof-reading reports. I
actually proof-read the previous year’s Garda Commissioner’s Report, and we found
ourselves working on projects like that. For me it was a godsend, I learned a lot, I
got involved in things like procurement, which in the PSNI was done up in Police
Headquarters, and people like me would never have got an opportunity to be
involved in it. In Garda Headquarters they assumed that I would know about these
things, and I didn’t! But I learned, and that allowed me to make friends that I have
maintained ever since. There’s people in the Garda who I have maintained contact
with, we email, we’re in contact occasionally. Most recently whenever I was
unfortunate enough to be caught speeding by An Garda Síochána coming out of
Dublin Airport I had occasion to contact one of those friends to find out, “do I need
to send my driving licence to Dublin, or not?”
We didn’t know the Garda, we could talk to them, we might even be aware of their
names. You generally might have been aware of the name of the station sergeant,
we would have known who the station sergeant was in Scotstown, we would have
known his name, but we would have known nothing about him. Our attitude
towards them were: ‘they’re police officers like we are’... I know that there has been
some political capital made about whether or not we trusted them or not. Trust
never came into it. In fact the reality was we did trust them, because for example in
my account, where we had to go and investigate a sheep worrying... we could
control the environment on the northern side to the best of our ability, but whatever
would happen across the border was out of our control. So we had to trust the
Garda to provide us with the cover, and if the Garda had said to us, “guys don’t be
going to that call”, we wouldn’t have went to it. So as I say there is some political
capital has been made, and there’s been some high profile cases that have hit the
news in recent years, and there’s an ongoing commission... But nonetheless we did
have trust for those folks, and we seen them as colleagues. Interestingly, it brings to
memory another connection back to Rosslea that I experienced in 2006. In 2006 I
was involved in a Peace II project, as a police officer, delivering equality and
diversity training to PSNI and An Garda Síochána. I was a trainer on the scheme, on
each particular course we had three trainers, one Garda, one PSNI officer and one
independent, and I delivered all the training that I was involved in, in hotels across
the border. I did have the option of doing them in PSNI stations, but I knew that the
class of scones in a hotel were much better than in the police stations! So there I
was in Sligo. I very well recall that particular first session, where I was taking the
first session and we got everybody to introduce themselves and to tell us where they
were from, and what stations they had been in. I came across this gentleman who
�dc
Diversity
Challenges
‘A
project
supported
by
PEACE
III
Programme
managed
for
the
Special
EU
Programmes
Body
by
the
Community
Relations
Council/Pobal
Consortium’.
looked considerably older than me, but it transpired that he joined An Garda
Síochána in 1981, the same year I joined the RUC. His first station was Clones and
mine was in Rosslea, and even though Scotstown was our corresponding Garda
station, Clones was literally almost an identical distance, it was as the crow flies
perhaps less than five miles away. Now this Garda obviously was in Clones when I
was in Rosslea. We would’ve been able to hear each other talking on our x-ray radio
sets. We perhaps may even have talked to each other on the radio. We didn’t know
each other, we didn’t meet for twenty five years, and twenty five years later I
thought it was quite profound, quite touching, almost emotional that here was
somebody that I worked alongside in 1981. We met and shook hands for the first
time twenty five years later. By that time he was a sergeant in the Traffic Corps in
Carrick-on-Shannon, and I was retiring, I was due to retire as a constable, so his
career path obviously went a little bit better than mine, but it was interesting that
twenty five years went by before we actually met.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Green and Blue Across the Thin Line (<em>collection</em>) [NC]
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of 39 stories that were compiled as part of a project with the aim: "To develop a storytelling project reflecting the cooperation and interaction between former members of Royal Ulster Constabulary and former members of An Garda Síochána along the border from the establishment of the two Police Forces to 2001." (From the Green and Blue website.)
Extracts from the 39 recorded interviews were published in book format in 2014. The associated Green and Blue website contains full transcripts for 24 of the interviews. The website also contains 18 interview audio files (as of 22 January 2016).
URL
Non DC - URL of Organisation / Project
http://www.green-and-blue.org/
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Diversity Challenges Board
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014
Stories Collected
Non DC - Number of stories recorded as part of the project.
39
Stories Deposited
Non DC - Number of stories deposited with Accounts of the Conflict.
18
Collection Permission Form
Non DC - Collection permission form signed and returned.
Yes (signed: 21 March 2015)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Published book; and Web site
Language
A language of the resource
English
Delayed Access
Non DC - Yes/No on request for delayed access.
No
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Police Services; Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland; 1920s to 2001
Publication
A book, article, monograph etc.
Author
Author of the publication
Andy Galloway
Date Type
Publication, Submission, Completion date etc.
Completion date 2014
Publication Title
Full title of publication, as it appears on item.
Transcript of audio interview.
Publication Status
Published, in Press, Unpublished, etc.
Published on-line
Number of Pages
7
Publisher Location
Place of publication: city / town
Website
Publisher
Diversity Challenges Board
Publication Type
Report, Book, Manual etc.
Transcript
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
<em>Untitled Story</em><span>, by </span><span>Andy Galloway </span><em>(story transcript)</em>
Description
An account of the resource
Transcript (PDF) of the audio recording of interview with Andy Galloway which was recorded as part of the Green and Blue – Across the Thin Line project.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Green and Blue – Across the Thin Line project
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF version of transcript
Language
A language of the resource
English
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Catalogue ID
Non DC - ID for the Catalogue entry that relates to this entry
2857
Diversity Challenges
Green and Blue
-
https://accounts.ulster.ac.uk/repo24/files/original/7808a6d674636c5a929e30c416845f3b.mp4
2484f8102158695aaaedd3983ca7df62
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Memory Project (<em>collection</em>)
Description
An account of the resource
"The Memory Project is an exciting, innovative arts programme that uses drama and theatre to deal with the past and build pathways for the future and to promote peace, reconciliation and mutual understanding in Northern Ireland and the southern border counties.
The project is run by Smashing Times Theatre Company in collaboration with Corrymeela Community / Irish Peace Centres and is funded through the EU’s European Regional Development fund through the PEACE III Programme for Peace and Reconciliation managed by the Special EU Programmes Body.
The project consists of a series of creative storytelling happenings, workshops and dramatic performances, along with a television documentary which will be made to record the process." (from the Smashing Times Theatre Company website)
In addition to the 12 filmed interviews (involving 15 interviewees), the project also produced an hour-long documentary entitled 'The Memory Project: Stories from the Shadows' which documented the work of the theatre company, over the course of two years, as it carried out the project.
Two theatre productions were also presented as part of The Memory Project.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015
URL
Non DC - URL of Organisation / Project
http://www.smashingtimes.ie/page-2/page-2a/
Stories Collected
Non DC - Number of stories recorded as part of the project.
12
Stories Deposited
Non DC - Number of stories deposited with Accounts of the Conflict.
11
Collection Permission Form
Non DC - Collection permission form signed and returned.
Yes (signed: 10 November 2015)
Delayed Access
Non DC - Yes/No on request for delayed access.
No
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Permission Form Scanned
Non DC - Scan of permission form uploaded to archive.
Yes
Video
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
Transcript available
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Video
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
31 minutes 22 seconds
Compression
Type/rate of compression for moving image file (i.e. MPEG-4)
MPEG-4
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
William Caughey
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
<em>Untitled Story</em>, by William Caughey (<em>story video</em>)
Description
An account of the resource
The video interview with William Caughey was carried out by Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd. as part of The Memory Project.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Smashing Times Theatre Company
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Smashing Times Theatre Company
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
31 September 2013
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Video
Language
A language of the resource
English
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Catalogue ID
Non DC - ID for the Catalogue entry that relates to this entry
3456
Memory Project
Smashing Times
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Memory Project (<em>collection</em>)
Description
An account of the resource
"The Memory Project is an exciting, innovative arts programme that uses drama and theatre to deal with the past and build pathways for the future and to promote peace, reconciliation and mutual understanding in Northern Ireland and the southern border counties.
The project is run by Smashing Times Theatre Company in collaboration with Corrymeela Community / Irish Peace Centres and is funded through the EU’s European Regional Development fund through the PEACE III Programme for Peace and Reconciliation managed by the Special EU Programmes Body.
The project consists of a series of creative storytelling happenings, workshops and dramatic performances, along with a television documentary which will be made to record the process." (from the Smashing Times Theatre Company website)
In addition to the 12 filmed interviews (involving 15 interviewees), the project also produced an hour-long documentary entitled 'The Memory Project: Stories from the Shadows' which documented the work of the theatre company, over the course of two years, as it carried out the project.
Two theatre productions were also presented as part of The Memory Project.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015
URL
Non DC - URL of Organisation / Project
http://www.smashingtimes.ie/page-2/page-2a/
Stories Collected
Non DC - Number of stories recorded as part of the project.
12
Stories Deposited
Non DC - Number of stories deposited with Accounts of the Conflict.
11
Collection Permission Form
Non DC - Collection permission form signed and returned.
Yes (signed: 10 November 2015)
Delayed Access
Non DC - Yes/No on request for delayed access.
No
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Permission Form Scanned
Non DC - Scan of permission form uploaded to archive.
Yes
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Story Title
The title, if any, of the story or account.
<em>Untitled Story</em>, by William Caughey
Story Available
Y/N
Yes
Story Format
Main format of the story (video; audio; etc.).
Video
Story Source
Source of where the story can be found.
The story has been <strong>deposited</strong> with Accounts of the Conflict.<br /><strong>Film interview</strong> available at website:<br /> https://vimeo.com/120594188<br /><strong>Interview transcript</strong> also available:<br /> http://www.smashingtimes.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Interview-with-William-Caughey-Transcript-The-Memory-Project-Smashing-Times-Theatre-Company1.pdf
Ind Permission Form
Yes/No - Individual permission form signed and returned to Accounts.
Yes (signed: 10 December 2015)
Ind Form Uploaded
Scanned copy of paper form for preservation alongside the stories.
Yes
Ind Delay Access Y/N
Y/N for individual story-teller delayed access request (check signed permission form)
No (open access)
Interviewee Surname
Caughey
Interviewee Forename(s)
William
Interviewee Gender
Male
Religion
Religion / denomination that the interviewee was brought up in.
Protestant
Birth Country
Country of birth if mentioned (or make assessment based on interview).
Northern Ireland
Previous Address
Previous address (during conflict / story).
Newtownards [County Down, Northern Ireland]
Status
Details of status of interviewee during conflict (civilian; security force; combatant; paramilitary; political party; loyal order; etc.).
Former member of British Army (BA), former member of Security Forces; Former Psychiatric Nurse
Occupation during conflict
Occupation status at the time of the conflict / story.
British soldier, Member of British Army (BA),
Story Abstract
Text from any publicly available abstract which describes the story.
William Caughey gives an account of his early family life and the impact of the Troubles. His time in England working as a psychiatric nurse and his return to Northern Ireland to live. His work with Smashing Times Theatre Company.
Dates Mentioned
Specific dates, or ranges.
27 August 1979
Events Mentioned
Major events mentioned.
Warrenpoint Attack (27 August 1979)
Places Mentioned
Places mentioned: cities, towns, villages, etc.
Warrenpoint [County Down, Northern Ireland]
Age
Age of interviewee
56 (in 2013)
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
<em>Untitled Story</em>, by William Caughey (<em>story details</em>)
Description
An account of the resource
The video interview with William Caughey was carried out by Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd. as part of The Memory Project. It is one of 12 video interviews. The film interview was recorded at Ards Arts Centre, Newtownards on 31 September 2013.
William Caughey, originally from Newtownards, County Down, was a member of the British Army in Northern Ireland and a psychiatric nurse.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2013
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Video
Language
A language of the resource
English
CAIN Links
Non DC - Links to related information on CAIN
CAIN Chronology: <a class="lightwindow page-options" title="Additional related information on the CAIN Web site" href="https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch79.htm#27879" target="_blank">Warrenpoint Attack</a> (27 August 1979)
Memory Project
Smashing Times
-
https://accounts.ulster.ac.uk/repo24/files/original/02763363d64d7ee32f2d830fdbbd820e.mp4
75157a6e461b5c892864720fad499cce
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Memory Project (<em>collection</em>)
Description
An account of the resource
"The Memory Project is an exciting, innovative arts programme that uses drama and theatre to deal with the past and build pathways for the future and to promote peace, reconciliation and mutual understanding in Northern Ireland and the southern border counties.
The project is run by Smashing Times Theatre Company in collaboration with Corrymeela Community / Irish Peace Centres and is funded through the EU’s European Regional Development fund through the PEACE III Programme for Peace and Reconciliation managed by the Special EU Programmes Body.
The project consists of a series of creative storytelling happenings, workshops and dramatic performances, along with a television documentary which will be made to record the process." (from the Smashing Times Theatre Company website)
In addition to the 12 filmed interviews (involving 15 interviewees), the project also produced an hour-long documentary entitled 'The Memory Project: Stories from the Shadows' which documented the work of the theatre company, over the course of two years, as it carried out the project.
Two theatre productions were also presented as part of The Memory Project.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015
URL
Non DC - URL of Organisation / Project
http://www.smashingtimes.ie/page-2/page-2a/
Stories Collected
Non DC - Number of stories recorded as part of the project.
12
Stories Deposited
Non DC - Number of stories deposited with Accounts of the Conflict.
11
Collection Permission Form
Non DC - Collection permission form signed and returned.
Yes (signed: 10 November 2015)
Delayed Access
Non DC - Yes/No on request for delayed access.
No
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Permission Form Scanned
Non DC - Scan of permission form uploaded to archive.
Yes
Video
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Peter Conlon
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
Transcript available
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Video
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
23 minutes 40 seconds
Compression
Type/rate of compression for moving image file (i.e. MPEG-4)
MPEG-4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
<em>Untitled Story</em>, by Peter Conlon (<em>story video</em>)
Description
An account of the resource
The video interview with Peter Conlon was carried out by Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd. as part of The Memory Project.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Smashing Times Theatre Company
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Smashing Times Theatre Company
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6 October 2013
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Video
Language
A language of the resource
English
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Catalogue ID
Non DC - ID for the Catalogue entry that relates to this entry
3457
Memory Project
Smashing Times
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Memory Project (<em>collection</em>)
Description
An account of the resource
"The Memory Project is an exciting, innovative arts programme that uses drama and theatre to deal with the past and build pathways for the future and to promote peace, reconciliation and mutual understanding in Northern Ireland and the southern border counties.
The project is run by Smashing Times Theatre Company in collaboration with Corrymeela Community / Irish Peace Centres and is funded through the EU’s European Regional Development fund through the PEACE III Programme for Peace and Reconciliation managed by the Special EU Programmes Body.
The project consists of a series of creative storytelling happenings, workshops and dramatic performances, along with a television documentary which will be made to record the process." (from the Smashing Times Theatre Company website)
In addition to the 12 filmed interviews (involving 15 interviewees), the project also produced an hour-long documentary entitled 'The Memory Project: Stories from the Shadows' which documented the work of the theatre company, over the course of two years, as it carried out the project.
Two theatre productions were also presented as part of The Memory Project.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015
URL
Non DC - URL of Organisation / Project
http://www.smashingtimes.ie/page-2/page-2a/
Stories Collected
Non DC - Number of stories recorded as part of the project.
12
Stories Deposited
Non DC - Number of stories deposited with Accounts of the Conflict.
11
Collection Permission Form
Non DC - Collection permission form signed and returned.
Yes (signed: 10 November 2015)
Delayed Access
Non DC - Yes/No on request for delayed access.
No
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Permission Form Scanned
Non DC - Scan of permission form uploaded to archive.
Yes
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Story Title
The title, if any, of the story or account.
<em>Untitled Story</em>, by Peter Conlon
Story Available
Y/N
Yes
Story Format
Main format of the story (video; audio; etc.).
Video
Story Source
Source of where the story can be found.
The story has been <strong>deposited</strong> with Accounts of the Conflict.<br /> Film interview NOT yet available at The Memory Project website.<br /><strong>Interview transcript</strong> is available:<br /> http://www.smashingtimes.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Interview-with-Peter-Conlon-Transcript-The-Memory-Project-Smashing-Times-Theatre-Company1.pdf
Ind Permission Form
Yes/No - Individual permission form signed and returned to Accounts.
Yes (signed: 15 November 2015)
Ind Form Uploaded
Scanned copy of paper form for preservation alongside the stories.
Yes
Ind Delay Access Y/N
Y/N for individual story-teller delayed access request (check signed permission form)
No (open access)
Interviewee Surname
Conlon
Interviewee Forename(s)
Peter
Interviewee Gender
Male
Religion
Religion / denomination that the interviewee was brought up in.
Catholic
Birth Country
Country of birth if mentioned (or make assessment based on interview).
Republic of Ireland
Nationality
Details of Nationality / Citizenship.
Irish
Occupation during conflict
Occupation status at the time of the conflict / story.
Member of An Garda Síochána
Status
Details of status of interviewee during conflict (civilian; security force; combatant; paramilitary; political party; loyal order; etc.).
Former member of An Garda Síochána (Irish police)
Story Abstract
Text from any publicly available abstract which describes the story.
Peter Conlon gives an account of his time policing the border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland during the Troubles.
Themes/Topics Mentioned
Major Themes/Topics first, then sub-themes and topics.
Policing;
Border roads;
Concession roads;
Dates Mentioned
Specific dates, or ranges.
1969 [1960s]; December 1971 [1970s]
Events Mentioned
Major events mentioned.
Loyalist bomb, Ballyshannon (19 October 1969);
Armed robbery;
Places Mentioned
Places mentioned: cities, towns, villages, etc.
Clones [County Monaghan, Republic of Ireland];
Ballyshannon [County Donegal, Republic of Ireland];
Belleek [County Fermanagh, Northern Ireland];
Organisations Mentioned
Main organisations mentioned.
Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
Specific Deaths Mentioned
Details of any specific deaths mentioned.
Thomas McDowell (19 October 1969)
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
<em>Untitled Story</em>, by Peter Conlon (<em>story details</em>)
Description
An account of the resource
The video interview with Peter Conlon was carried out by Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd. as part of The Memory Project. It is one of 12 video interviews. The film interview was recorded at Abbey Arts Centre, Ballyshannon, Republic of Ireland on 6 October 2013.
At the time of the interview Peter Conlon was a former member of An Garda Síochána, Republic of Ireland.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2013
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Video
Language
A language of the resource
English
CAIN Links
Non DC - Links to related information on CAIN
CAIN Chronology: <a class="lightwindow page-options" title="Additional related information on the CAIN Web site" href="https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch69.htm#191069" target="_blank">Loyalist bomb, Ballyshannon</a> (19 October 1969)<br /> CAIN: Sutton's Index of Deaths: <a class="lightwindow page-options" title="Additional related information on the CAIN Web site" href="https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/cgi-bin/dyndeaths.pl?querytype=name&surname=McDowell&forename=Thomas" target="_blank">Thomas McDowell</a>
Memory Project
Smashing Times
-
https://accounts.ulster.ac.uk/repo24/files/original/42b1572a586d5f9bd755905b3723c6fa.pdf
5405356325496e8272881a3b49893b36
PDF Text
Text
Green & Blue Project
Pat O’Leary
I’m now seventy two.
I am from Kilcummin, Killarney.
I was promoted sergeant here in Clonakilty in 1972... and my first posting, for a very
short period was to Terelton, which is over near Macroom, I was sent over there and
I fondly remember it, because... we had a fall of snow, and trying to get to the place
was nigh on impossible, and when I arrived there there was no other Guard there at
the time because somebody was sick, and the other person was on holidays, so I
was there on my own, I was there for about maybe two, three weeks I’d say, when
I was told to then that I was... being transferred to the border.
Well it wasn’t really because I think we kind of realised that we would be going,
there were twenty five of us promoted at the time, and while I suppose we were all
hoping against hope that we wouldn’t be going too far, but nonetheless I think in
the back of our mind we felt, I did anyway, that we were going to go to the border...
and I always remember the morning that I was told, I was going down town, leaving
my house which is quite near the Garda station in Clonakilty, and our district clerk at
the time... left down the window in the office because he saw me going out the
gate, and he called me, and he said ‘your transfer is out’ and he said ‘would you like
to know?’ so I said ‘don’t tell me ‘til I come back’ because I knew where I was going
I said ‘I don’t want to be bothered now’ so when I came back I went to him, and he
told me, he said ‘you’re going to a place called... Burnfoot in County Donegal’ now,
number one, I’d never heard of the place, and to make matters worse, when I went
to the map to try and find out I couldn’t find Burnfoot in the map at all. In the map
that I had anyway, a road map, and the only thing I could find was Bridgend, which
turned out to be... very very adjacent to Burnfoot, Bridgend would be the Customs
post at the time, next to Derry, going from Donegal to Derry so then I found out
where Burnfoot was, but... I had to pack my bags anyway, and leave.
I was leaving behind Noreen my wife, and two children at the time, yeah. And the
two were young at the time... one would be seven, and the other would have been
three, yeah. And I think, which was a bit disturbing at the time as well, our daughter
Elaine who was the three year old, wasn’t well at the time, had a medical condition,
and we were up and down to Cork a good bit to a specialist, and I was kind of
conscious because we had only one car, even though a small car at the time! A very
small car, but I was very conscious of the fact that... I was leaving, I had to leave
the, my family without a car, number one, I had to travel and... Noreen was going to
be saddled then with looking after our sick daughter as well, and do you know I was
afraid that the condition might deteriorate as well, but anyway I had to go, so I
went in the, I’d say if my memory serves me right now, about the first week in
March I’d say, I head off for County Donegal, Ulster. And I had a Mini Minor car,
now I’m fairly tall, and I was scarcely able to get into this car myself, but the
�amount of luggage I had, my little car was packed, heading for the border, and I
distinctly remember... the day that I went, I left early in the morning... somewhere
outside Sligo I thought at this stage, now... I was nearly there, there was this guy
doing something to cattle on the side of the road and I pulled up and I got out of
the car, probably wouldn’t be able to do it now at all because ‘tis probably a highway
now, ‘twas a very minor road at the time, and I went over to him and I said, ‘do you
know where Burnfoot is in County Donegal?’ and he said ‘never heard of it’... so then
I mentioned Buncrana, because I knew that was the next town, so he said ‘I do,
now I have an idea now’ he said ‘where you’re probably heading for’ and I said ‘by
the way’ ‘how far is it?’ he said ‘you’re all of seventy miles still from Burnfoot’ and I
thought I was there, I thought I was there at the time.
Seventy miles in a Mini on a bad road, yeah... but I got there and I remember when
I arrived in Burnfoot, trying to find the Garda station, it was an old rectory, well in
off the Buncrana-Derry road... line of trees leading up into it, it still looked like a
rectory, the only difference that there was, there were two Garda houses built at the
end of the driveway, and there was a sergeant and a Guard living there, but anyway
I found the Garda station.
I knew I was going there as a sergeant, but what role I was going to play as that
sergeant I didn’t really know on the border, because we were ill prepared to be quite
honest about it now, I served all my time here in Clonakilty principally as a patrol car
driver for the, for five or six years, doing mundane... police work around West Cork
which was quiet at the time, you know? Here I was facing the border in the midst of
the troubles at the time, because it was 1972 now you know, and... I was trying to
figure out myself as I drove that day to Donegal, what am I going to be doing, when
I arrived there, the sergeant, one of the sergeants that was there, said to me, ‘I’m
delighted that you have come because I’m trying to get out of here’ he said, ‘I want
to, I’m hoping to get a transfer, my only hope for a transfer out of here is for a new
fella to come, and you happen to be the new fella’, so I said ‘fine’ so I... got to
realise very quickly that I was going to be a jack of all trades really, because he was
going, and hell-bent on going so he had lost interest in the place obviously, and I
didn’t blame him for it, either because he’d a young family as well, I was really in at
the deep end then because I was, I was there as a sergeant, a young sergeant,
totally on my own, like starting off... and we were straight into trouble there like,
because we’d problems, we’d problems, practically every day there like of one sort
or another, now it wasn’t any better, any worse than other Garda stations along the
border, but nonetheless... the fact that we were the next Garda station to Derry I
suppose didn’t help either, you know?
Well, we would have things like, there was one particular day I remember, I was
sitting down talking to a Guard in our public office, and... we saw these two guys
walking up the avenue, and I just happened to say to the Guard, this is a problem’
you know, when we saw the two of them, this was in the middle of the day, when
they arrived in anyway, we discovered they had been travelling around in a
travelling... shop... and the shop was actually... commandeered by guys who had
�taken the shop off them, this is a mobile shop, a van or a truck, or whatever it
was... and of course, they were after the money, and the contents, and the two
boys were left Shanks’ mares, back to the Garda station to tell us about their
ordeal... and we, the Guard that was with me realised immediately, I wasn’t long at
all there now when this happened, the Guard and myself realised immediately... this
i an international problem now, because these guys are gone across the border with
this, this is not in our area anymore, but anyway we had to go out and search and
we did, and... possibly got to know very quickly what had happened. That was the
biggest problem that I felt while I worked there was trying to... conclude anything
that you, you started, you started investigating something, but you never came to
the end of it, you were left, a lot of things were left in mid air, or in mid stream,
because ‘twas very hard to pursue them because you were dealing practically all the
time with cross-border traffic, and this would refer now to very minor things that we
would take for granted down here, maybe traffic accidents and... minor things like
driving licence and insurance on cars and things like that, you held up somebody,
you found that things weren’t right, but they were living across the border, so... they
were out of jurisdiction, you know as far as we were concerned, but... we had
robberies as well, serious robberies, I mean I distinctly remember one, they had a
big dance hall there on the Buncrana road, just outside Burnfoot, ‘twas in the area
where we were... and one night just after the dance, about 2.00a.m. just after it had
finished, there was a raid on the dance hall and I remember the time, that night I
was off, Noreen actually happened to be up and the children, ‘twas during the
summertime and there was a raid on the dance hall for the proceeds of course of
the night, they were looking for the money, and there were shots fired... and we
were called out, and of course we were all unarmed, we would have batons stuck in
our pockets, and into the unknown as well like you know, not knowing what you
were facing, and as well as that the routine stuff was difficult as well because like if
you were doing say, you often hear checkpoints on the border, we were doing
checkpoints on one side of the border, the RUC were doing their checkpoints on the
far side of the border, but [pause] some trouble happened in the north, it was likely
that the cars were going to come to our side of the border, vice versa could happen
then, there could be some problem that we had on our side, and the guys were
going back in across the border, so... you were dealing with... like I said,
inconclusive type of duties, which made it very very difficult, you see, I suppose
anybody in the workplace, no matter what you’re doing, you like to be able, if you
start something, you like to be able to finish it but it made it difficult, I also
remember one evening I was in in Derry with the sergeant who was there at the
time, he was the replacement of the man that left... and we went in to Shantallow,
into a big supermarket, we used to go in there, maybe pretty often enough, but
we’d always go in in pairs shopping, ‘twas a fine supermarket, and of course we
were going in there to bring things home as well because we were buying stuff in
Derry cheaper, a lot cheaper that time than you were buying them in the Republic...
and we were in the supermarket, came home and I remember I was in where I was
in digs, in Burnfoot... and at teatime we were all sitting down, there were a lot of
the other lads that would be working with me there as well... there was a bang...
and the windows of the house shook... now we hadn’t a clue at the time what was
after happening, so we discovered later that evening in the BBC news... that there
had been an explosion in the supermarket that we had been in ... ‘twas bombed
�actually that evening... and all the contents, everything was destroyed in the
supermarket, and there were people injured at the time as far as I remember, but...
the, the tale to that story is... there were people going in across the border for
weeks and months afterwards, because they were buying off shop soiled stuff from
the supermarket, even though ‘twas cheap enough before, but ‘twas now being sold
much cheaper.
If the RUC were there, and they held us up, they... and naturally they’d ask who we
were, and they would be looking maybe for documents and things from the driver,
so they would, they would, sometimes they’d get to know that you were, other times
except you were asked, you just gave your driving licence with your name, maybe
the driving licence then had a Garda station... address or something, maybe
depending on who the driver was, but if ‘twas a kind of a general name that
somebody had been living in a townland somewhere, there would be no
identification... but you were always on tenterhooks, because... the one thing that I
was always afraid of, and particularly when I was travelling up and down, because I
usually, to make the journey a bit shorter when I got to know my way around, went
into the border at Aughnacloy in County Tyrone, and I came out at Strabane...
further up, but you were always conscious then at a lot of checkpoints along the
way that... you could have crossfire, somebody could attack the checkpoint, you
could be just unlucky to be there at the wrong time, so... we had to pick the time
that you travelled as well, you’d have to be very careful about the time that you
travelled... but having said that, I just remember having good relationship with the
RUC, because we’d meet them at the points, just at the points, we’d be talking,
you’d be kind of cross-border talking if you know what I mean now, but you’d be
kind of general type of, rather than... official type of... discussions, ‘twould be kind
of a general discussion about the problems that there were maybe at that particular
time, or whatever, you know? Because it affected both of us.
I mean we were there for a purpose, to try to prevent, because the problems were
across the border mainly, now... we had a spinoff in our place from... what was
happening across, because we’d a lot of people who were maybe committing that
type of crime across the border, were coming across to us, so there would be, there
would be... that, but the liaising, and I think you know was kind of at a higher level
than us, really, the main liaising with the RUC would be, would be a higher level of
the Guards than what we were, we wouldn’t have much recourse, talking about...
say political duty matters or anything like that now with the RUC at all.
That is it, that’s the kind of general conversation more than anything like that, yeah
‘twould be, yeah ‘twould be,
Oh yes, certainly, certainly because... there was an understanding like that we were
both trying to do a job of work, which was probably as difficult for them and more
difficult for them than ‘twas for us, really... I suppose we were in the happy position
�as well, some of us that were there, that knew we were only there for a short time,
we would be getting out of the place... but having said that, I was there on a
permanent transfer, so I didn’t really know when I was going to be getting out of
there.
It was difficult from that point of view, I suppose not so difficult from my side
because I got into my stride in the work very quickly because you got to know like
what was required and things like that, but was shocking difficult to be so far away,
I mean I was... single journey three hundred, and almost three hundred and fifty
miles from home, where I was. Thinking of your wife and a young family back
home... also thinking about yourself like, you know that they were worrying about
you, they didn’t know what was going on either, and probably was much worse for
them because they were seeing things on television, and hearing of events that
were happening, even they could be miles away from where I was,
You have to imagine now, the people up there are living on the border... they would
have been some of the people, relations or... people connected with people that we
would have been looking out for maybe inside the border, maybe involved in
activities, so therefore you were always, you had to be very much on your guard, we
had gone in there, and this is what I am saying about no preparation in the world
for this thing, you were going into strange territory really, the dialect also of course
was slightly different, and very hard to grasp because, like... I used to hear them
talking when I went up there first about weans, and I didn’t know what they were
talking about at all, these were the children, and they had, they had different words
for much different than we had down south, of expression, I found that extremely
difficult for a while, but then after a while you got to know it... talking about the
policing aspect of it, I must say now around Burnfoot... I discovered very quickly
that there were an awful lot of... parents in the Burnfoot area, and the Buncrana
area, and the Muff area, which was close to us as well, who had sons in the Guards,
in different parts of the country themselves... and like, from once you got to know
those... they were kind of a rung on the ladder... to get to know the locality a little
bit better, or talk to them or find out what was happening... the other great problem
we had there was you see when we were off, what were we going to do? When we
were off duty? I mean you’re out in Burnfoot out in the heart of the country,
‘twould remind you of down this part of the country, now say Ardfert or Ballinascarty
or somewhere like that... I used to go playing bingo. I wasn’t in a bingo hall in my
life, until I went to Burnfoot, I always remember there were small little halls out in
the country, there was bingo there practically every night of the week, but the one
thing I discovered very early on was ‘twas busloads of women, that used to come
from across the border, ‘twas all older women playing bingo... and the small little
hall, full of smoke, I can still remember it well, every bloody one of them were
smoking, and the place was full of smoke, but like you’d very little to do... we used
to go on walks, and... they’d a football pitch there... and some of the younger fellas
used to play football locally, I was into football at the time, I liked it, so I used to
just go watching them ... but that was difficult as well then trying to kill time.
Yes, well I think especially when you’ve, you’re having children,
�Oh dramatically, it had of course, yeah it had of course, and as well as that you
know, you were there with a total strange group of Guards as well, that you didn’t
know at all like you went straight into a situation, where I didn’t know anybody
when I went there, because some of them had been there, most of them were
brought in there, transferred in there... and a lot of them were there against their
will as well, through no fault of their own, because they didn’t, ‘twasn’t that it was
County Donegal now or anything, or ‘twasn’t because ‘twas the border, but the mere
fact they were taken away probably from their children, a lot of them married, were
leaving families behind, and it made it very difficult for them... it makes Garda work
difficult, and it made Garda work very difficult, I always firmly believe looking back
on it that... the powers that be at the time didn’t realise at all what they were
putting us into... I felt we were half useless actually, up there... I did really, because
even though police work is the same no matter where you go... the fact that you
were dealing with cross-border stuff meant that there should be a little more
thought put into it and a little bit more training, like I felt that there were plenty of
places to put sergeants down the country who were promoted into stations further
down the country, there must have been a lot of Donegal fellas who would be
delighted to get back home, into stations in their own county, maybe there was a
reason for not doing that, I don’t know... but I felt that was the road that they
should have gone down rather than sending strangers like us up to the border, but I
would find fault with the fact that we weren’t prepared for it, I think that should
have been something that, because it meant you were going into a serious enough
situation, you know.
The political, as well as the police side of it as well, the policing side of it, the Garda
side of it as well, prepare you for the type of work that you would be doing, prepare
you for the fact like that you were going in... in charge of Guards, some who were
new in the area, others who, who knew the area pretty well, you had to find out, the
fellas that were there like, what were their intentions, what did they think about the
situation on the border, because like... true enough, some of them were lukewarm
about it, because they were living there as well, they were finding it difficult to deal
with people from their own area as well.
So you didn’t know, and we didn’t know, and it was very difficult for us to find out,
extremely difficult, but having said that, after a couple of months there I discovered
that the vast majority of the people who were living in the place... were very very
friendly towards us, because we were out all day and all night, and we had
checkpoints here and checkpoints there, and people were being held up continually,
and it must have been very difficult for them as well, going about their ordinary daily
work, you know you were sticking your head in the window of a car and you were
looking for identification, you were searching cars and... you know, which made it
difficult for the local people as well, but...
�I, I would say the raid on the hall, the night in the hall was... to me it could have
been dangerous, because... when we got there, we didn’t know what we were
facing, number one, number two we didn’t know if the people had gone out of that
territory or whether they were still around there.
We didn’t, hadn’t a clue and we didn’t know what they, well we knew what the
motives were, a robbery to get money... there would have been another one
another day that there was a shooting actually across the border at Bridgend, which
was, which was near the Customs post, and I remember going there with two young
Guards, now again we were facing the unknown, and again unarmed, we were just
there checking cars, quite close to where the activity had been before we arrived,
and again we didn’t know whether the people who were doing this, because it came
from our side of the border, they could’ve been still quite close to us, and we didn’t
know, we didn’t know when they were going to maybe open up fire again, even
though we were there, because ‘twould have been common knowledge we were
unarmed, so it could have been possible that they would do it again, those type of
incidents would be the worst really that I think that I was involved in anyway there
on the border, but there was always a danger, we were always particularly on the
alert, particularly at night, dark nights, you know out doing checkpoints and things
like that, and I remember there was a famous showband person at the time, now
I’m not going to mention any names but... he travelled mainly in his own car in and
out across the border, the van with the other members of the band... would be
either gone before him or after, but every night that he came back to the border and
he used to go in up at Bridgend... he was always enquiring, about how things were
in in the north that night, because he was afraid, he didn’t know what he was facing
into, he wanted to get back to his home safely, but every night that we were out,
he’d stop at the checkpoint enquiring about things in the north for the night... to me
‘twas a dangerous place, really I would classify it as dangerous now, I mean there
was a another time when a showroom in Derry was broken into... I remember at the
time there were four cars and they were all yellow, yellow coloured cars, now
whether they were in the showroom or in the garage at the time for a particular
group of people like taxi drivers or whatever, they were all the one colour, but the
showroom was broken into one night, all the cars were taken... and we were told
that they were actually driving them on a beach out in our area... and... we went to
check anyway, and ... when the Guards arrived... the boys had left the beach with
the cars, and of course within minutes they were back in across the border with the
cars, but there was a fleet of yellow cars actually removed that night from the
showroom, and taken...
I usen’t come down that often really, about every second month, I’d say.
[Noreen:] Every two months.
Every two months, yeah. I’d travel up and down every two months, yeah.
�And how like, would you try and keep your days off together?
I would, I would and I can tell you I remember one... I left Burnfoot in my Mini...
after night duty... which was a highly dangerous thing to do, and I said, ‘I’ll drive
part of the journey now and I’ll rest’, and I got as far as Athlone, and I always
remember going into a hotel in Athlone, and I went into the foyer of the hotel and I
remember saying to the receptionist... I was going to have... breakfast or food...
and I said, ‘do you know, I’d have a sleep first, call me at a certain time, maybe an
hour, an hour and a half, I’ll have a rest, because I was dead tired, and I went to
sleep and she called me at about an hour and a half... and I sat into my car after
having something to eat and drove all the way down to Clonakilty... but... ‘twas a
long lonely drive, was grand coming home, but to sit in your car then in Clonakilty
and face back again, and like... I was conscious there were twenty five other
sergeants with me that were doing the same thing, all in the same boat, now some
of them were lucky, they went to towns where they got accommodation, that was
the other thing, I could not get accommodation where I was, I’d have to get
accommodation in Buncrana or Letterkenny.
Well, Buncrana would have been, I’m not sure now the distance, but I suppose,
twelve, twelve miles maybe from Burnfoot, I don’t know how far it is, Letterkenny
would have been farther away, but even at that time to get accommodation there
wasn’t easy either because you had a lot of personnel on the border looking for
accommodation at that time as well, and from time to time there were a lot of
temporary people going to the border that time as well, if there was something
serious happening ... there was a time there, when there was riots in a place called
St Johnston, up on the border, ‘twas before I went there, and there were an awful
lot of Guards taken in there in temporary transfer at the time, they would have
been... maybe thirty, forty, fifty Guards taken in there, there was a lot of trouble
there, serious trouble... so ‘twasn’t easy to get accommodation, and we... I, my
family went up for the summer, we lived with a lady in a place called... Fahan, ‘twas
Fahan, yeah, Fahan, she was still living in the house when we were there, we just
had the use of the kitchen, and our bedrooms, we had the two children at the time,
but that was grand then because my family were there so you know, you’d be
somewhat happier. I had peace of mind.
Well, you’d be a bit happier anyway, that’s for sure, you weren’t kind of isolated or
left on your own or anything like that, but of course ‘twas great for people as well
because a lot of stuff was brought across the border at that time, I mean people
were bringing car parts and everything home, tyres and batteries and all this type of
thing, cigarettes or butter, all these things were much cheaper in across the border,
and they were markets and people used to go into the markets, but again you had
to be a little bit careful going in as well, because ‘twasn’t a kind of free for all that
time at all, like you would go in and walk around you know I was much happier
when I had somebody with me who knew something about Derry, because you
didn’t want to drive into the wrong areas or you didn’t want to do something that
�would draw notice to yourself, so from that point of view, lot of pressure, lot of
pressure, we were working under extreme pressure, that’s what I felt as well... yeah
I didn’t know anybody on the border, from working on the border who said that they
were relaxed, because they weren’t, even the local Guards would find it difficult
enough because... they were conscious as well... had they to take action... against
somebody they were living close to in the locality possibly, they had a family, you
know, maybe some of their children going to school, so therefore you were looking
over your shoulder all the time, it put... a lot of extra pressures on... the police
forces, I’m sure... much worse on the RUC in across the border than it was on us,
but it did on the Guards as well along the border, yeah and you know ‘twas a kind of
a strange feeling to have all these strange Guards moving into an area all together
at once, I mean I was staying in digs in, Burnfoot... beautiful landlady and landlord
in the house, would do anything for us... but like, they were totally overcrowded,
because they were the only place that would cater for us, they were able to look
after the Guards there at the time, you know? And they gave us accommodation,
and good accommodation, we were lucky to get it... and... but you felt all the time
that you were away from home and you were isolated and you were in strange
surroundings, you were dealing with strange people, but again having said that, the
people found it difficult I’m sure as well, you know?
I was there from... very first week in March until the middle, almost the end of
November.
Oh ‘twas a good spell, yeah and lucky, we were extremely lucky because... I would
believe myself that the only reason we got out of there at that particular time was
because new people were promoted, so they replaced us and we were able to get
away, and I think gradually as well, they learned that they were inclined to put
people who were promoted more close to the border, to the border duties than
bringing people from very far away, because after that for us down here there were
few people that went, for long stints, now having said that, there were then
monthly... terms on the border as well, and I think, a lot of the members of the
Guards from around Cork, would have given the short stint of a month rather than
the long stints that we were in, because... except that you went on promotion or
something you weren’t there for a long stint.
Oh you would, ‘twas much easier, I never minded a month, because I... like I said to
you, off air at all... I thought I was finished with the border when I came down to
Athea, in County Limerick that that was me finished with the border, but I
discovered very quickly that I was on a list again to go back to the border, I said ‘oh
no, this is what happens’ the only good thing about it was that I mainly went to
either one of two places, Scotstown in County Monaghan, and I was staying in
Monaghan Town... or I went to Dundalk, staying in the town, I’d be able to get
accommodation and stay in the town... I loved to be quite honest about it, the duty
didn’t worry me at all in those two places, because I knew I was only there for a
month, much different... kind of attitude to monthly work than it would be for the
long term work.
�It was difficult from the point of view, but the one thing that I will say about it... I
did find in Dundalk and I’ve often thought back on it, there were a lot of young
Guards in Dundalk station because it’s a big district headquarters station... they were
very very active young fellas, very interested in what they were doing, now then the
Guards, most of the Guards would be permanently there... and we usually when we
went there for a month would have a group of fellas working with us, young fellas,
and I always remember our main work in Dundalk was... if we were on the early
morning shifts in particular, six, seven o’clock in the morning, starting... we were
searching vacant properties, searching vacant houses, which was dangerous really
because you know, you were obviously looking for something... that could have
been booby trapped, or we could find somebody or we could find explosives, but the
young fellas were used to doing it, and we were very well versed in how to handle
the situation... and I must say that I learned an awful lot about policing in Dundalk,
I learned an awful lot from the young guys who were there, because they were so
used to being in an area that was, that had a lot of trouble, that they were prepared
or I presume their authorities had them prepared for it, they had certain techniques,
certain methods by which they worked, and it made, it made work very easy. I was
also in Scotstown, which was on the border as well, with Fermanagh... and again,
mostly a lot of checkpoints out in the wilderness, out in, because ‘twas mostly rural,
very rural, mountainous, well I won’t say mountainous now, but hilly, lot of forestry,
again lot of searching, lot of that type of work, mainly. Again, ‘twas grand because
we were only there for the month, I enjoyed it, I used to get to a lot of football
matches because Monaghan was a great county for football, we’d get a lot of
matches, we’d great comradeship there as well, because there was a lot of people
up there on temporary for the month, so we’d all meet, we’d go to the pub together
and go wherever we went together and things like that, so ‘twas, that was fine from
that point of view, but... the long stint in Donegal was much much different, a much
different proposition altogether, yeah.
[Noreen:] We went up to Donegal, myself and the children for the summer, but we
went for a walk one evening, I’d say ‘twas the first evening we went for a walk
towards Buncrana, and we heard this big bang... and we said ‘there’s thunder, we
better go back home’ and Pat came back and told us afterwards there was a bomb
in Derry, I’ll tell you we didn’t go for a walk or anything there... no I, I enjoyed my
term up there really, I did, the lady in the house was lovely... Margaret... we can’t
think of her second name, but we enjoyed it, ‘twas beautiful weather and the
children enjoyed it, and everything, ‘twas lovely and ‘twas great for us because we
had been alone for so long, you know and the children loved it.
[Noreen:] Oh it was awful, it was awful really, and I had no car, and it was lonely...
it was lonely with two small children really, they’d go to bed at night and you’d sit
down and be there on your own, and... you know it was very lonely, it was really
yeah.
�[Noreen:] Oh it was brilliant, absolutely brilliant. Now we lived near the O’Callaghans
next door, down below in the houses as well, like as we’re here now as well, and
you’d have that company but it was lonely, really. You know, very.
I used to try to, when I was coming home, you’d always bring something. I wasn’t
the best out shopping at all, for anything to be quite honest I suppose, it’d be said
that I’m still not the best for it anyway... I always made a point when I was coming
home, I’d bring clothes for the children... and again there were a lot of markets, as I
say, and now sometimes in Monaghan, particularly when I was going on temporary
transfer, you’d buy things reasonable in Monaghan itself as well, but then there
were, markets across the border, Jonesborough was a great place for markets... but
I always made a point of bringing home clothes and I can still, in my mind’s eye see
the clothes that I bought and when I wasbuying them, because there’d be a few of
us together and we’d be comparing notes, we’d say ‘would this suit somebody now,
this age?’ you know, and you had men buying children’s clothes, lots of men...
Totally unusual.
[Noreen:] Very unusual, that men just didn’t get anything...
I went in so far as to buy...
[Noreen:] But he bought me a dress!
I remember buying a dress for Noreen...
[Noreen:] I still have it, I said ‘I don’t know it’s ideally... put it in a museum! Pat
bought me a dress!’
I remember two sergeants with me and I buying it, and we were inside, and they
had the girl modelling the dress inside for us, we were trying to decide... and they
were trying to get me to describe what kind Noreen was, her height, her
dimensions! Colour hair, eyes all this type of thing, we were trying to buy the
clothes.
[Noreen:] And sure I was pregnant when he was away as well, which was difficult
really.
‘Twas difficult, yeah.
[Noreen:] There was great excitement when he came home, we didn’t care where
we went.
And of course, ‘twas nice coming back to the children as well, because the children,
like ‘twas totally new for them, I was away, when you come back like, but they’d be
absolutely delighted when you come home.
�[Noreen:] Ah sure there was great excitement.
Oh there was big excitement and you know, I usually brought stuff to them, if it
wasn’t clothes it was something else, but again, ‘twas grand coming home, but then
facing back like you know, and then what used to kill me then was the drive, I
changed my car then one time when I was at home, and I thought I’d get a bigger
car, a more comfortable car, and I remember I bought an Austin 1100 car in Cork, a
nice car, lovely and comfortable... but a day or two before I was due to come home
from Burnfoot for my time off... the engine of the car started to give trouble... and I
remember driving down, I came home all the way with a water container in the car,
the water pump in the car was giving trouble, oh no ‘twas a gasket and the car was
giving trouble, and ‘twas leaking... and I was putting in water, I would have to stop
every so often and put water into the car, so I drove the whole way from Donegal
with a faulty car and I was petrified that it was going to break down, but like I
suppose... the only people that would travel to Donegal are people going there on
their holidays and ‘tis the most beautiful county, I would compare it really with West
Cork and Kerry, the scenery is exquisite in Donegal.
[Noreen:] Oh it was a lovely county, yeah it was, and we always said we’d go back,
we never did it’s so far away...
It’s divided really into two, Donegal is divided into two, you have the Swilly, Lough
Swilly, and Lough Foyle, you’ve the Foyle on the eastern side, but you have the
Buncrana that peninsula there, the Inishowen peninsula, and then you have the
western side of Donegal which is absolutely beautiful country, beautiful... I must
say, the longer I stayed there the better I got to know it, I liked the people there,
the local people, and... they had put up with an awful lot like, you know during the
troubles and everything.
‘Twas terrible for them, they had put up with an awful lot, you know and a lot of
inconvenience as well, with road blocks and everything, there were a lot of detours
and there were roads closed off, and it made life difficult for the local people, and
like when you go there first, you were probably not conscious of that, but as my stay
extended there, I got to realise that there was an awful lot of inconvenience for local
people.
For them ‘twas inconvenience as well, it was really. Now, you had people that
exploited the situation, you had people then who of course were... were supportive
of the cause that was going on across the border, and they were going to do what
they could to disrupt things across the border, and this is, was our purpose there to
try and prevent that from developing, and again that placed a lot of pressure on us,
the other thing for me I suppose was that the fact that... as I said I went up new,
newly promoted, I was young at the time like, I had only about ten year’s service in
the Guards... was to get to know even how to act as a sergeant, if you know what I
mean? In simple terms, how to play the role of a sergeant, because as far as I was
�concerned all I did was tuck my Garda role into a sergeant’s role... which sometimes
maybe wasn’t sufficient for what you were supposed to be doing, because there was
a lot of work, I found there was a lot of work in, Burnfoot for a sergeant, a lot of
work, there was a lot of paperwork as well connected with the border, because it
placed extra duties on the lads who were working outside... all the time... and I
would have been one of those that preferred to be working outside, so I used to go
out as much as I could with them, I’d be out a lot with them, we’d a lot of traffic
accidents now as well, which...
And it’s still, do you know? It hasn’t change, sure it hasn’t...
Because the percentage of deaths on the roads in Donegal is a way above the
national average, has been, thankfully lately I haven’t heard all that, but... there was
a period there and it was very bad, and in my time there as well, we’d a lot of
accidents, and again with a lot of... Northern Ireland drivers involved in traffic
accidents, whether it was the condition of the roads, or whether it was lack of
knowledge of the locality or what it was, and we had a lot of accidents at night
there, I can remember... because we used to be out like with our jackets, and ‘twas
a highly, highly dangerous place because we were on the Derry-Buncrana road, and
we had the Derry-Letterkenny road, we had two main roads coming from Derry, kind
of intersecting there and ‘twas a dangerous, dangerous place for traffic, but a lot of
time spent investigating traffic accidents as well, as well as border duties, so that
was...
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Green and Blue Across the Thin Line (<em>collection</em>) [NC]
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of 39 stories that were compiled as part of a project with the aim: "To develop a storytelling project reflecting the cooperation and interaction between former members of Royal Ulster Constabulary and former members of An Garda Síochána along the border from the establishment of the two Police Forces to 2001." (From the Green and Blue website.)
Extracts from the 39 recorded interviews were published in book format in 2014. The associated Green and Blue website contains full transcripts for 24 of the interviews. The website also contains 18 interview audio files (as of 22 January 2016).
URL
Non DC - URL of Organisation / Project
http://www.green-and-blue.org/
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Diversity Challenges Board
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014
Stories Collected
Non DC - Number of stories recorded as part of the project.
39
Stories Deposited
Non DC - Number of stories deposited with Accounts of the Conflict.
18
Collection Permission Form
Non DC - Collection permission form signed and returned.
Yes (signed: 21 March 2015)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Published book; and Web site
Language
A language of the resource
English
Delayed Access
Non DC - Yes/No on request for delayed access.
No
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Police Services; Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland; 1920s to 2001
Publication
A book, article, monograph etc.
Author
Author of the publication
Pat O'Leary
Date Type
Publication, Submission, Completion date etc.
Completion date 2014
Publication Title
Full title of publication, as it appears on item.
Transcript of audio interview
Publisher Location
Place of publication: city / town
Website
Publisher
Diversity Challenges Board
Publication Type
Report, Book, Manual etc.
Transcript
Publication Status
Published, in Press, Unpublished, etc.
Published on-line
Number of Pages
13
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
<em>Untitled Story</em>, by Pat O'Leary <em>(story transcript)</em>
Description
An account of the resource
Transcript (PDF) of the audio recording of interview with Pat O'Leary which was recorded as part of the Green and Blue – Across the Thin Line project.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Green and Blue – Across the Thin Line project
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF version of transcript
Language
A language of the resource
English
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Catalogue ID
Non DC - ID for the Catalogue entry that relates to this entry
2877
Diversity Challenges
Green and Blue