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                    <text>Interviewer: You told me when we were with the big group that you actually had quite a clear memory
of seeing soldiers for the first time in Crocus Street. You reckoned you were 12 at the time...
2: Yeah I was 12. I think they came along on the streets on I think it was the 14th of August or something
like that – ’69. XXINAUDIBLEXX I lived in Crocus Street, two streets away from it and I remember there
were barricades up at the time, because I believe a few weeks before it when Bay* Street burn down
and I remember people saying the soldiers were coming onto the streets. I and my brother and a few
other wee lads with whom we played football went up to the top of the street and we saw these
soldiers walking up. You hear the... I think you called it whippets at the time and there were maybe a
hundred or so just marching up the street and the Major or whoever it was calling out all the orders.
That was scary.
Interviewer: You found it a frightening experience?
2: Yes I thought it was frightening, yeah; because the Major or whoever it was, was calling out the
orders and the soldiers were turning around and actually facing you. I’d never even seen things like this
in television; and this was real life just standing facing me.
Interviewer: Did you know why they were there?
2: No, not really, just when you see something in the news, and when you’re at that age you’re not
interested in anything like that.
Interviewer: Can you remember the reactions of the grown-ups?
2: The grown-ups more-or-less welcomed them. I remember people used to bring them cups of tea and
that.
Interviewer: But did that worry first time you seen them? **
2: The very first time I seen them, the grown-ups welcomed them, because the grown-ups thought that
it was just a matter of time before other streets were burnt out and the Catholic people at the time
thought that the soldiers were here to protect them.
Interviewer: Did you play with the soldiers?
2: No. I just kept away from them. Some kids – people younger, maybe 6 or 7 year-olds would have
went up to the soldiers, but I didn’t go near any of them. I was more-or-less scared of them. And when
they did come in, I’m not too sure, you seen their berets and all – and their guns. I think it was the
Paratroopers or something like that. Because my father, as he fought in the war, he was more-or-less
welcoming of them too; he was able to tell you what regiment and all they were from. That type of
thing. But definitely on the Falls Road they were welcomed for the first time.
Interviewer: and your father he was in the British Army too... during the Second World War.
2: Yeah, he was signed up – enlisted. He went all through the war – 6 years.

�Interviewer: There was another thing you told us about, moving on a few years, as you get a bit older,
one of the first bands you seen was Thin Lizzy. I’m just interested in what kind of entertainment was like
in Belfast for you as a teenager?
2: In 1970, 14, 15... up to ’73. Because of the troubles which were going on, and because it was at the
centre of the town, there was all security gates and that type of thing... and you were young; you
weren’t allowed out. You were only allowed to go to a disco or round the corner or something. When I
lived in Crocus Street we had a ground* behind St Paul’s chapel... we had a hall; a band hall. A band used
to play there one a Tuesday or Wednesday night or something like that. But another night of the week
we used to hold a disco for the younger ones. So we used to go to the disco every week. As you get a
wee bit older, you get insistent* in your music… ’72, ’73, and at one time, I think I just started working at
Europa. I started in Europa in August ’73. I think it was at the later part of ’73, a couple of friends of
mine said that Thin Lizzy were playing in the Romano’s*; Romano’s used to be used for leisure* or
whatever it was, upstairs in Upper Queen Street. So four of us, having bought tickets we went down to
it. XXINAUDIBLEXX It was all mineral water and that type a thing. That was the first concert I ever went
to, and it was in the centre of town and I was only allowed to go because it was the top end of town; just
off Castle Street. At that time I had an older sister and she used to go down to the likes of the Starlight,
which was down in Ann Street I think. That was for the more-or-less older ones; people who were 19-20.
But that’s the first concert I was ever at, the Thin Lizzy concert – in ’73.
Interviewer: So, what age would you have been then?
2: I was 16.
Interviewer: So, you were still quite young.
2: Yes, and I think it was just the time before ‘Whiskey in the Jar’ came out. That was out in ’73. So that
was my first concert; the Romano’s you called it
Interviewer: So you were saying when the security gates came along or as they came along; that kind of
made the City centre out of bounds for entertainment stuff, you know.
2: Yeah… It was too dangerous for you to go into it. You know most of the town closed anyway at ten or
eleven O’ Clock at night – there was nothing in the town for anybody.
Interviewer: And did you go to any other concerts in the town?
2: No, only… in about 1979 or 1980 I went to a Human League concert in the City Hall… whenever they
were popular. I went to that concert.
Interviewer: The last thing I want to ask you is just about the whole experience of working in the
Europa, as the Europa was infamous for being the most bombed hotel. What are your memories of
working there?

�2: When I worked there I was training to become a chef and I think while I look back at it, they were the
best years of my life, despite the troubles and all those sorts of things. But you were meeting people of
different religion…
Interviewer: I think you said it was the first time you’d met a Protestant was in the Europa…
2: Yeah more-or-less I socialised with Protestants in the Europa. That’s the first time I really socialised
with Protestants… because, you know, we were never brought up to be bigoted in any way; just treat
them the way you meet them. That’s the way my family were brought up. Even through the generations.
So that was the first time I had actually met Protestants and actually socialise with them – have a drink
with them and that kind of thing – get to know them. Working there was like one big happy family. At
the same time too, you were trying to learn your trade – and it was hard work. But, through the times it
was bombed you did your best to get into work, and no matter what, through the companionship with
those with whom you worked, you just got through it. I loved working there.
Interviewer: Can you remember any particular time when bombs went off?
2: I remember one time we were told to get out. There was a bomb scare – one of the bombs didn’t go
off. Somebody had driven with a bomb into the delivery bay one time and we were all told to get out,
and the thing went off while we were standing outside it on the other side of the street just down at the
back of Ramsen’s* there; down near the tech . But when I worked there I actually went through three or
four of the bombings. It was just a part of… you know, you get used to it. It didn’t faze you in any way.
You know you were never scared to go to work; the only time you were afraid to go to work was maybe
walking to work or something because of a drive-by shooting or something like that – because I
remember going to work one morning and I walked down the Grosvenor. Whenever I got into work, I
was told that there were two postmen shot dead on Northumberland Street on the Falls Road and that
was the same time I was coming to work.
Interviewer: What are your memories of actually working in the Europa? Was it a particularly happy
time?
2: Yes. It was hard work, you were training and you did split-shifts. You’d start in the morning at 10 O’
Clock and maybe get the preparation ready for lunchtime, and after lunch, we got the preparation ready
for that night. We took our break at half two/three clock then back again for half six for services, then
start again at seven o’ clock to half ten and you wouldn’t get home to 12 o’ clock at night.
Interviewer: So it was a long day…
2: It was a long day. It was a split shift.
Interviewer: And how did it work out?
2: In the afternoon we maybe used to go to the pictures or something like that. You know, if three or
four of us were working on split shifts, maybe we would have went to the ABC and watched a film…

�Interviewer: Yes, just down the street really.
2: I remember actually going to watch the sting in it; the sting was out in, I think, ’74.
Interviewer: If you were out of work at 12 O’ Clock then, how would you have travelled home?
2: I would usually get a taxi home.
Interviewer: Was that just for convenience or safety?
2: Safety – staff taxi. They usually provided us a taxi free. *
Interviewer: Well, they understood…
2: They understood that it was later on… it would have been risky. Maybe two people were going to the
Falls and two people were going to the Shankill.
Interviewer: And one taxi took you all?
2: One taxi took the lot – took the four of us. I remember I had a good lot of friends there.
Interviewer: and do you think the actual experience of the hotel being under attack and that sort of
tough environment… I get that sort of sense from you that it pulled people together.
2: It put people together. I think it made the people there stronger… that no matter how many times
they bombed it, we were going to work on. In no time at all the Hotel was back up and running again.
Even through the Loyalist strike…
Interviewer: You stayed open during that time?
2: It stayed open during that time. I remember one day we actually had to with candles and make salads
and that type of thing. We used to meet some of the… Martin Bell – I remember meeting him a few
times and I saw Ian Paisley and people like that. Sometimes the politicians were in – they dined in the B
theatre as well. Harper Berne* was manager then. You saw some famous people there – I enjoyed it.
Sometimes we used to go round to a disco where British Home Stores was. Louis Small was the DJ there.
I can’t remember what you called the place. Some of the staff used to go round there.
Interviewer: So despite the fact that there were the security gates and the town was very quiet… there
were still these kinds of places…
2: …but you were still out at 11 or half 11 at night.
Interviewer: It closed up at that time?
2: Yeah. There was a pensioner’s part upstairs as well.*But it was experience I was getting through
cooking – it was good experience.
Interviewer: Did you serve food in the penthouse?*

�2: Yeah, you served food to the pensioners; after you got the pensioner’s pocketful. There was a
programme on television a year or two ago about the pensioners pockets; some of them were actually
in their early sixties, and they were talking about it. Gummy bears we would call them.
Interviewer: Did you like working up there?
2: Yes. Just… for the experience.
Interviewer: So like a nightclub was it then?
2: It was like a nightclub. Well that closed about 12 o’ clock at night. It wasn’t every night, maybe once
every couple of months or something.

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                    <text>UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:09 Page 31

The Poster
Billy Robinson
There were a lot of attacks
taking place on people in work, going to work
and coming home from work. A lot of intimidation took place… it was
really at its height from the late 70s to the early 80s. There was a
heightening of tension in the workplace. There was shooting of Catholic
and Protestant taxi drivers. It was taking place on a nightly basis. It was in
the home, it was in the workplace, in the streets. There really was a lot of
fear and lots of tensions.

I hated the divisions in this country to the extent that I had wanted to
leave it from my early teenage days. I hated that other people would tell
me who I could socialise with or who I could be friends with. That really
got to me big style and I never liked this place for that reason and I never
ever wanted to be seen as a Catholic… you know this traditional
Catholic. I wanted to be taken as I am and to have whatever friends I
wanted.
At this time I was involved in the (Trade) Union and then I became a rep’
in it and then I was asked if I would stand for office. Even though I was
getting fed up with the job itself, I stood for office and was elected.

31

�UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:09 Page 32

One of the crisis points happened one morning. I received a phone call
from one of our members in an establishment in East Belfast -he
informed us that there was a poster up in the premises; a recruitment
poster for one of the paramilitary groups. It was there on the wall and
management was aware of it, but for obvious reasons there was a fear of
actually removing it. His concern was that it would cause conflict within
the site. We thanked him for calling and my colleague and I had a
discussion about it. We were very frightened because we knew we had
to remove it or somebody had to remove it. So we arrived at the site and
went into the room where all the staff would congregate to get their
jobs in the morning - probably about 200 people. We spotted the poster.
The noise level was pretty high - people were on their phones or having
conversation with mates or whatever, so the only way to draw attention
was to knock a locker over… a steel locker. There was silence. We stood
on a chair and we made a statement - “this was a place of work, no place
for politics.” We removed the poster. When we got down we were half
expecting some reaction, but there was no reaction … just the noise
level went back up again, people went back to their work. So we were
leaving and truthfully we were trying to get out as quick as we could but
individuals came to us, particularly of a Protestant background because
it was a majority Protestant site and they thanked us and said that they
were glad we took it down because their fear was that it would cause
fear, conflict and really destroy relationships in the site.
I had felt very frightened and nervous. I felt you know I am a fool for
putting myself out? But on the other hand it felt good in the end - it was
good to do it. Fear- it’s a four letter word but it sits across everything in
this society and stops us having conversations.

32

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                    <text>UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:08 Page 23

Supporting Mixed
Marriages
Anne Odling-Smee
We came to Northern Ireland in 1970 as my
husband obtained a post here as a surgeon.
We are in a Mixed Marriage and have raised
our children within our two traditions, baptising
them alternately as Roman Catholic and Anglican (Church of Ireland).
In 1974 I was introduced to people who were starting a support group
for couples planning or in a mixed marriage. We had experienced a
certain amount of critical and indeed unchristian comment because
we had married outside of our tradition and so had the people with
whom we decided to become involved.
In the early days of the
Northern Ireland Mixed
Marriage Association (NIMMA),
as we called the support
group, we spent a lot of time
helping and supporting each
other and the couples who
made enquiries by letter or telephone. It was not safe to use our own
numbers as many people felt it wise to be ex-directory but Corrymeela
House sheltered us as a postal address and telephone enquiry point.
We were helping couples to understand the guidelines which the
churches were supposed to follow about the conduct of a mixed
marriage ceremony or baptism, but also to provide support when they
faced other obstacles. For example, we had a couple where the bride
was a Catholic and her family were very hostile to her marrying a
Protestant and so would have no part in the wedding. The ceremony was
arranged but where to celebrate it? NIMMA decided to provide the food
and the reception took place in the nearby home of hospitable
members.

23

�UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:08 Page 24

Another issue we worked on was housing. It was at a very troubled time
in Northern Ireland and a couple came to us who were living in a
Catholic housing estate, but the husband as a Protestant felt unsafe and
they needed to move. So we contacted our friends in the Association of
Inter Church Families in England. They found a clergyman who with the
help of his congregation found a house into which our couple could
move.
Housing has been a big issue, particularly if as a couple you did not have
enough money to choose where you lived. When people were
intimidated we could put them in touch with Housing Aid and other
organisations and we began to campaign for Housing without Labels,
but a big change needed to happen.
After the Good Friday Agreement the Housing Executive announced
that they were working out a strategy for Shared Social Housing as so
many of their estates were segregated and not safe for people in mixed
marriages, nor often for ethnic minority people. NIMMA was given a
place on the Advisory Board and so we were able to explain what our
couples needed and urgently. The housing application forms had three
categories ‘Catholic,’ ‘Protestant’ and ‘Other’ - but we are not other. We
are inter church, cross community and mixed. We bring two traditions to
the table. After a good discussion it was agreed that a category ‘Mixed’
would be added so that couples could apply for a house in a Shared
Neighbourhood, or in a Shared Development – housing without labels.
In NIMMA we know that as a group you can make structures change so
that those people who want to be together, not separate, can be so. We
think this is what being a Christian means. A great many people in
Churches and wider society
have done their best to help.
It just needs to become
infectious - NO LABELS.

24

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                    <text>UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:09 Page 35

Working with threat
Jeff Maxwell
In the late 1980s I was a youth worker in North Belfast. I was working
with young people who were being knee-capped or were under the
threat of being punished and I suppose that’s where the interest came
around how to support young people when this was happening to
them. People were aware that punishment beatings were happening,
but not at that scale and it was something that the majority of people
didn’t really want to know about. There’s always been that
misconception that punishment beatings were about young people
who were joyriders - that was comfortable for communities because if
they were joy riders and young people doing drugs there was a reason
for punishments - almost a reaction of “well it’s terrible, but here, they
didn’t get it for nothing” If they had accepted that it was an injustice,
.
then there would have been an onus on them to do something about it.
In 1990 I started working with a number of peace groups dealing with
victims of paramilitary violence and in 1994 I commenced working for
Base 2 which is a crisis intervention service for individuals and families
who are at risk of paramilitary or community threat. It started as a
response to the very high levels of predominantly young males who
were being punished or put out of the country. I’ve since dealt with
about 5,000 cases where people have been under threat or at risk. The
job involves meeting with community/paramilitary contacts to verify if
the threat is genuine and what level of threat exists. We see if we can get
the threat lifted or if there is a possibility of a mediation to address the
issue. If it isn’t possible to get the threat lifted we’ll assist that person to
relocate, usually within Northern Ireland, but during
the height of the conflict, often out of
the country.
The very first time I was involved in
moving people out of the country was
two young lads who had been put
under threat. We’d arranged for them to

35

�UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:09 Page 36

go to England on the boat. We picked the two lads up, but they had to get
their belongings from their house - they couldn’t go back into the area
because they were under threat, so we went to one of the lad’s house to
meet his mother. She got a sports bag with a pair of jeans, a few jumpers
and a poster from the bedroom wall. She opened her purse and gave me
a tenner for him – it was the last note that she had in her purse. So you get
the young people out and then the reality sinks in of how on earth are
they going to survive on the other side? If you were to look at a group
within our society who are least capable of being lifted and taken
elsewhere, it’s that group. Here was a 17 year old fella going to a city to
start a new life with a sports bag, a poster and ten pounds. Six to Eight
months down the line he made approaches to come home and one of the
other paramilitary organisations claimed that young lad: “if you come
home and you join us - you’ll be all right they won’t be able to touch you”
.
So he came home, joined that organisation and ended up with a serious
conviction as a result of his involvement. So it cost him in the end. That
was the price of being able to return home because he couldn’t survive.
That was his only way back – to go and join another organisation and
ultimately that cost him 10 years of his life, but that’s how organisations
manipulated and used people.
It’s not a 9-5 job and it does impact on you outside
of work. On occasions when out in town, I have
been approached by individuals asking for support
to return to their areas or for mediation. Obviously
people are sitting at nearby tables and I’m thinking
people will assume I’m part of the paramilitary
organisation that’s keeping him out!
Things have progressed now – there isn’t the same
level of physical assaults and better mechanisms
for mediation. Communities are more open to
restorative processes. Back in the 1990s there
would have been higher levels of violence and risk of personal attack.
And you did live with that for a while and that certainly did put massive
strains on relationships and everything else. But most of society lived
with risk at that time.

36

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                    <text>UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:08 Page 21

Out on the
Streets
Mary Kelly
Well basically what happened was that I saw kids
throwing stones and bottles and I thought -look at all the size of them ;
do they realise what’s going on ; do they realise the consequences if
bigger people got involved ; somebody could end up shot; some child
going for a bottle of milk could lose their life because of this. So that’s
when I went out into the street and thank God I had a couple of people
who also came out with me. At the beginning I was more or less just
out, as people would say, “slabbering.”

This was the start of the “interfaces” when a wee crowd would come up
from the Protestant end and a wee crowd from the Catholic end and it
was 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. I could stand back and see that
there were kids caught up in it. I wondered how I could get across there
to the “other side” to get to know some of the woman down there so I
would be able to say to them to keep their kids away and we on our side
would do the same. And then as it flourished and people got to know
you, they knew you were doing it for a purpose.

21

�UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:08 Page 22

I believed that every man in his
house had a responsibility to
know where his kids were and
what they were doing. We
approached lots of parents and
asked them if they knew where
their kids were and what they were doing? We
didn’t care what religion they were and warned them that it was time
they did know where they were and that they needed to go and get
them. My name got around – “she’s out there she is,” and the kids used
to shout –“here come Mary Kelly.“ You would have thought I was
carrying a machine gun.
Nobody really threatened me. You would have got the odd one
shouting out their neck –“who do you think you are?” I would say –“I
don’t think I’m anybody but I’m telling you we’re not having it; we’re not
letting this area go down the tube; I’ve seen too many areas going down
the tube and this one certainly isn’t. I’ve worked too hard buying my
house and I’m still paying for it and I’m not putting up with you or
anybody taking this away from me and that’s the way it’s gonna be.”
On reflection I would say I still wouldn’t let anybody do anything if I
thought somebody was in danger. It’s my nature; I can’t help myself; I
would have to get involved no matter who it would be if I thought that
somebody was deliberately abusing someone. If I was about I would
have to say-“here what’s going on?” I can’t help my nature. It’s not being
nosey. The way I look at it is if everybody took that stand- ‘well I wouldn’t
like that done to my child’ –then maybe we would have a better place.

22

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                    <text>UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:07 Page 10

A Lonely March
Mary Healy
We were the Armagh Peace
People and we had set up the
group to bring people together, to give them hope
through nonviolence. We had a great response to that.
I didn’t think at that time of the whole political thing you know. I was
aware that Catholics and Protestants worked together within the groups
I was involved in and I was also aware that some people may not have
liked my involvement.
As a result of my name being in the press I got a lot of phone calls and
they were phone calls I couldn’t cope with. The language was horriblesaying what they’d do with me if I went ahead with these meetings. It
came to a stage when my husband couldn’t cope with those phone calls
and I said I would be the only one to answer the phone. So I would just
lift the phone, listen to it and set it down again. I never thought very
much about who they were other than that they opposed the sense of
us trying to do something in a non-violent way. I presumed that they
were from my own denomination. Then one day I got a letter and it was
a life threatening letter. It was from a paramilitary group- they didn’t
specify who nor did they give names or anything but their last sentence
was something like, “you or a member of your family will be shot if you
go ahead with the proposed march.” (The Armagh Peace Group was
planning a march to raise awareness).

10

�UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:07 Page 11

I remember after getting the life-threatening letter, going up the stairs
and feeling that I’m alone in this now and praying about it and saying“my god, I give you my family, my home, my house, myself,” and I
suppose there was a release; a relief in that. So after that I didn’t lose any
sleep- there was a peace in that and that’s where I got my strength from.
There was one clergyman whom I had contact with and he said- “you
know you don’t talk about this letter; you don’t spread fear; you have to
hold on to this and go forward, without anybody around you knowing
what may or may not happen.”
The proposed march started in the centre of Armagh on Market St and
moved down round the town with people joining us at different parts.
There were huge numbers in the end. No opposition showed up on that
day that I can remember. We made speeches and sang songs which I
suppose gave people a short time of happiness if nothing else. They
weren’t afraid to be on their streets and that was important at that time.
I always think of the woman who said to me that we were all going to be
killed and I felt no we’re not and that we must give people hope.

11

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                    <text>UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:08 Page 27

The good
neighbour
‘Donna’
It was a typical estate where there was nothing going on
apart from drug dealing, paramilitary beatings, and paramilitary
shootings -they used to be regular occurrences. In the late 90s it was the
early days of the peace process and the Good Friday Agreement so
tensions in the estate were still very high. The police and the army land
rovers would patrol the estate and young thugs had nothing better to
do other than to stone them. That was just on an ordinary day before the
big rioting started. Come the evening the balaclavas came on, the milk
bottles were filled, walls were knocked down to provide ammunition to
throw at the police. It was just “open season” and crazy. I just wanted to
get home before dark, get everything set, the house locked up and stay
in.
I can’t for the life of me remember how exactly I found out about it. It
involved our neighbours- the husband was Protestant and his wife was
Catholic. Obviously Drumcree had happened and road blocks were
being put up. He had got a telephone call to his place of work to say –
“we know you are married to a Catholic; we don’t want Catholics in this
estate ; you’ve got until tonight to get out or we’re going to come and
burn you out.” He took that security risk very seriously and he literally
pulled up (at his house). He had two kids and he got the kids out and his
wife. He took the basic stuff and he came and knocked on my door and
told me what was happening. That was it -he’d packed his stuff and was
gone. I got to thinking- well if they are coming to petrol bomb their
house that’s maybe their
incident, but what happens if the
house next door catches fire? The
girl next door is partially deaf
and has two young kids. You
know their life is at risk and then
my house is the next one and I

27

�UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:09 Page 28

just thought -I’m not having my life, my neighbours’ lives or their house
being put at risk.
It was as simple as that. I went round to my mum and dad’s house and I
explained the situation. My dad gave me a fire extinguisher and I went
back home. I was not going to move and I thought if anybody came
anywhere near me or my neighbour’s house I will be putting the fire out
and that’s all there is to it. I stood in the lane behind the house and yes
there were people running up and down that alley way with petrol
bombs and they petrol bombed the police and army as they drove past.
I stood there determined that not one person would be touching that
house.
Every wee noise I was kind of like right this-this is it; this is me ready to
go. I stayed there for hours just going out the front, checking out the
front making sure everything was fine and then going round to the back
again. Then I’d check my son who was in bed to make sure he was
alright. I stayed to about 4 o’clock in the morning- it was starting to get
light so it was and the estate had quietened down and I kind of knew
that tensions had calmed a bit.
It didn’t cross my mind that I was in any danger. I was just looking out
for my neighbours despite their religion, despite anything else. They
were friends; they had two young kids; my child was living in my house
and well if I wasn’t going to do it, nobody else was willing to do it.
Somebody had to do something and I was that person.

28

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                    <text>UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:09 Page 29

The Hardest
Word of All
‘Jane’
It was a largely Protestant
village- in fact 100% Protestant.
The town also had a reputation
for attacking people - I
remember so well that there
was a homophobic attack, a
racist attack and a sectarian
attack all in the one week.
So it was a town that was interested in driving people out and it seemed
to me that the community all around us were doing nothing. Their way
of dealing with it was to go inside, close the door, pull the curtains, and
have nothing to do with it - perhaps tut a little bit about it and say, “isn’t
that awful?”
So three of us decided that we would go to the community association
and see what was happening there. It became very clear to us that these
people had a grip on the community and everything was going to be
run in their way so any change was going to be difficult. There were
three of us ladies, three little grey haired ladies and we would go there
on a Tuesday night. We didn’t speak at all and each night we came out
from the meeting and we vowed never to go back again. Nevertheless,
we kept going back in spite of the fact that we hated it and felt uneasy.
We felt that we were simply just a presence if nothing else-a presence
that they had to deal with. It was not easy to say anything in those
meetings. For example, I remember one incident when I spoke up about
the situation with regard to flags in the village. Although there were in
fact not many flags in the village, there was one Union Flag flying very
obviously outside the Chapel. I mentioned this and asked, if there was
any chance that it could be brought down? That was not received well
at all and some people said it should be put further up the pole and

29

�UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:09 Page 30

others said that it was the flag of the country and they could fly it where
ever they wanted.
Often I suppose, I felt unsure of what people were thinking - there’s a
wee line in a hymn somewhere that talks about “can you stand the
hostile stare?” I felt there were hostile stares. Nevertheless, I had to get
involved in some way. I felt unsure that what I was doing was the right
way but I had to do something. It all comes from my belief in God and in
Christ. As far as I’m concerned God is an all-embracing person, and his
whole life was all about love, peace and reconciliation, particularly
reconciliation which is the hardest word of all and the hardest thing of
all to do.

30

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                    <text>UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:07 Page 12

A Safe Journey Home
‘James’
I was teaching in a State high school that was considered a Protestant
school for Protestant boys. The school was set in a part of Belfast which
was split into two main areas, controlled by different loyalist paramilitary
groups (the UDA and the UVF). During the early 1980s, shortly after the
hunger strikes when tensions were high, difficulties had arisen between
the two paramilitary groups. This often meant that young people from
one area were not welcome in the other. I had just finished my teaching
duties for the day, and was clearing up some homework books, when a
fifteen year old boy came to the door. I knew the boy well and he came
over to the desk.
“They’ve come to get me, Sir,” were his first words.
“Who has come?” I asked.
“The UVF, they’re waiting at the gates.”
I didn’t ask why as he’d only have had to think up some story, so I told
him to sit and maybe they would tire and go home. The boy lived in the
UDA controlled area and to get home he would normally have taken the
bus from in front of the school.

12

�UP Standing storybook_Layout 1 04/12/2013 11:07 Page 13

After a while he went off to see if his tormentors had given up, but they
were patiently hanging about the bus stop. I asked if he wanted a lift
home - not something the pupils would have been keen to do. Their
“street credibility” would have taken a severe blow to be seen near
teachers! He hesitated, so I added that I could hide him in the back seat,
out of sight under a heavy waterproof coat. He must have been
desperate because he agreed and we proceeded to the staff car park. By
this time most of the others cars had left and he was able to jump into
the back seat, unseen by anyone, teacher or pupil. With the coat over
him, he was invisible, and the journey into his home territory was
uneventful. The task remaining was to get him out again without his
mates seeing him. In fact it proved easier than I expected. The side road
near his home was empty and he escaped with his credibility intact.
He didn’t come to school for a couple of days, and things seemed normal
when he did return. We never talked about it again and I suppose there
was no need. I didn’t feel there was any great risk to me. The guidelines
at the time certainly didn’t promote taking pupils home in your own car
under normal circumstances. These circumstances however were far
from normal and for me it was enough to do the thing that needed to be
done, and live with the outcome.

13

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