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https://accounts.ulster.ac.uk/repo24/files/original/b4daeb1251bd787d4b1929274b677b47.pdf
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PDF Text
Text
26 October 2013
Interview with:
Olivia O’Hagan
Venue: The Mac, Metropolitan Arts Centre, Belfast
The Memory Project, Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd
File D90008
TC Start: 01:53:00:12
Q: OK Olivia maybe you could start by telling me where you were born, grew up, the
kind of family life you had?
OLIVIA: [01:53:19:18] Well I was born outside Portadown, 1953 and I'm one of 10 in the
family and I'm the youngest of 10 so basically I was reared more or less by my sisters
and brothers, and I was the youngest, and we had a very colourful and happy childhood,
great parents and… they all were very keen for us to get educated and do well and be
part of the bigger life, and also to travel. They also encouraged us to travel, so we did a
lot of that and (01:53:59:17] then, then my parents died, my mother was 20 years
younger than my father and… she died before him of course, and then my father died.
My father died whenever I was about 19, no my mother died, my mother died
whenever I was 19 but my father whenever I was about 28, 29, yeah. [01:54:28:05]
Q: And where did you travel as a family outside?
OLIVIA: [01:54:31:00] No, no, we never went on holidays, my father was a farmer and
his season, for...the busy season for him would have been March until October, and we
grew a lot of berried fruits as well as… he went into mushrooms but very little dairy
farming but basically he was a person who grew a lot of stuff and he was the first person
to grow strawberries in and around the Portadown area. [01:55:02:05] And the first
person to grow roses for Sam McGredy and you have the black rose that he introduced
�and my father worked very strongly with him in partnership and that’s, that was the
environment I grew up in so it was lots of…. fresh fruit and vegetables daily, and lovely
fresh bread and fresh butter, we made our own butter and we slaughtered our own pigs
and we used the bladder of the pig as a football and we had good, we had a great. . very
happy memories of our childhood. [01:55:38:11] Very happy.
Q: And did all the children go to university?
OLIVIA: [01:55:42:11] And all of us went to university bar my 3 brothers. My, my two
brothers did not go to university, 1 brother was told to go to university and he refused
point blank, he said I'm staying on the farm and that was it. But the rest, all the girls,
were all sent to boarding school and all sent to university, and if, if we didn't want to
return then that was it, that was fine, it was no problem, just travel, get, get a life for
yourselves and make more out of your life than just sitting around home, so.
[01:56:16:08]
Q: Where did you move to after university?
OLIVIA: [01:56:21:03] So after university I went to work in...Chester, in the Health
Service in Chester, so I worked there for 10 years and then I came home and, I came
home about…. it was just after mommy died or while mommy was dead I was studying
at university in Manchester and then I just stayed over there, after mommy died I just
stayed over there. And whenever my sister wrote to me and told me to come home
because Daddy was living on his own and that everybody else was married, I decided
then that I would come home [01:57:01:01] and instead of Daddy dying, she died, at 43
years of age. [01:57:06:14] Very suddenly.
Q: Was it difficult to make the decision to come home considering the kinds of things
that were happening in Northern Ireland?
OLIVIA: [01:57:15:20] Well it was it was... there was a lot, a lot, a lot of things that
affected our family in a way, a number of people. . mistaken identities, they were shot
dead for…. first cousins shot dead, and my sister, the one who died at 43, she was
abducted and held at the Blackwater, until her husband drove a bomb to a pub that
served soldiers. She was abducted by the IRA, [01:57:50:11] so she was held at gunpoint
at the Blackwater river, and her husband was made drive a bomb to the pub and…
whenever he got out of the car he shouted bomb and pushed it down the hill, and the
bomb exploded, there was just a wheel left. And as soon as it was radioed through that
the bomb had been safely left outside the pub, my sister was thrown into the
Blackwater [01:58:20:00] but she didn't die, she managed to hold onto some weeds and
then she got herself out of the Blackwater and her husband was lifted by the police and
my sister was lifted by the police and they were held in the police station for 4 days.
[01:58:41:16] And they were accusing them of deliberately planting the bomb even
�though they hadn't planted it. But it was as a result of that, that I came home, and then
my sister died. It was the traumatic experience that had on her because y’know they
kept saying had they masks on? Y’know, did you know the identity of these people?
Y'know the fear and the terror of driving that bomb which was 150…a 150lb bomb over
4 major ramps [01:59:16:06] past a police station, as well, but not going to the police
station, going to a pub where - which had served British soldiers - that was the target
and it didn't… it didn't go…it went off, but it went off down the street, nobody was hurt.
But it was only shortly before she died, you know she used to have terrible nightmares,
and they basically were held at gunpoint and somebody came into the room and said
'shoot them, [01:59:45:01] that’s the easiest way to get rid of them, just shoot them’
and they were, they’re guilty’. And another detective stood in and said ‘no they are not
to be shot, they are innocent, you know these people have just come and hijacked
them, they lived in an isolated area and they've just been hijacked and they're innocent
and we're going to let them go’. [02:00:05:04] But her life was tortured after that, she
had to move house, they took the battery out of the car at night, every night, in case
somebody would do it again, they didn't put headlights into their car in case somebody
wanted to drive the car and would push them to putting in the battery but they had
taken the headlights out, their life was just a sheer and utter misery. [02:00:27:18] Total
misery.
Q: And were they targeted simply because of where they lived?
OLIVIA: [02:00:34:00] They were very, very, it was very easy and very convenient for
them to nip across the border, they, they were only a stone's throw from the border,
and there was a bridge and that, it was a footbridge and they could run over the
footbridge and my sister was held at gunpoint until the bomb was detonated and then
they left her lying there and off they went across the bridge. [02:00:59:12]
Q: And at that time there would have been no social services or no posttraumatic
services?
OLIVIA: [02:01:06:04] Oh no there was absolutely nothing, except to say that y’know
they, they were always fearful that the men would come back and shoot them because
they didn't know what they had told in the police station. They were held there for 3
days in separate rooms and interrogated, y’know they weren't allowed to sleep or
anything, so they were terrified of the men coming back to shoot them in case they had
told any stories. [02:01:31:22] So, one hand you had the pull from the police to say ‘yes
you are guilty and you are definitely guilty’, and you had the other pull, ‘these men
could come back and shoot us’, so it was a terrible situation, in that they were in, and 3
years later my sister died with a brain haemorrhage. She just could not cope with
the...strain of it and he equally couldn't. I mean he didn’t, his life just turned around, he
just sat, he just stopped farming and he just sat in the house and did nothing and he
was, he was a young man. I mean they were only in their 40's [02:02:09:09] and they
�had no family, they were just in their 40's, they were just the prime of their life and it
was just... taken away from them y'know, just the aftermath of it was horrendous.
[02:02:20:15]
SOUND: Could I get that point again, the 3 years later comment?
OLIVIA: [02:02:41:24] So it was, it was shortly after that, it was 3 years later actually
that my sister passed away, she had a brain haemorrhage. She was with me that day, I
was very fond of her, she was the second oldest in the family so she would have bought
me my first suit for my interview, and y’know she was like, with mommy dead, she was
like my second mother and, she was down with me that day and we were having fun
and y'know trying to get our lives back to as normal as it could be [02:03:12:11] and she
went back to her house that night - of course you have to remember they had to move
house, so they went across the border to a house they had across the border which
wasn't far from the other house but you had to walk across the bridge to it and she filled
her hot water bottle, she wasn't feeling all that well, she took headaches and she went
to bed and died with a brain haemorrhage. So it was, y’know it was very traumatic for all
of us, all of us, so. [02:03:41:08]
Q: Did they ever find the guys that did it?
OLIVIA: [02:03:46:19] Apparently from what I could gather, they blew themselves up
maybe 8 or 9 years, I suppose if truth be told, they did know who they were because
they didn't have masks on and whenever they were interviewed by the police they said
they had masks on because they did not want to say who they were because then they
would have brought them through another. y'know …. Y’know identity programme so
they didn't want to. So apparently, from what I could gather, the men blew themselves
up in a bomb that they were doing another mission with. . about . . I think it was about
10 years later. [02:04:26:03] So yeah….
Q: As a family were you ever asked, other than that situation, were you ever asked to be
involved?
OLIVIA: [02:04:35:01] No we weren't, we were never asked to be involved and we
weren't really very strongly minded, we, we were reared in a very cross community
environment so none of those issues would have ever been, ever have come up, and we
were never pushed to do anything, even though. . Like if you had bought a farm of land
and you might have got shots through your window for buying it from a Protestant and
you now owned it. [02:05:07:05] And even though you may have got your window's
shot through. . you, you sort of thought well, it doesn't really affect . . we were, we
were very hard working and I suppose my father was a businessman and he didn't see
the need to y'know bias, to give us any biases because he really, heavily depended on
the Protestant community to sell his strawberries and his soft fruits and his fresh fruits
�and his cabbages and all of that, to that section of the community because they were a
lot wealthier and they had a lot more money than us, or that’s what we perceived
y'know. So, we were never encouraged to do anything like that, and then with us all
going to boarding school, most of our good years [02:05:52:22] were in boarding school,
and then you came out and then you were, go and get educated, so the only ones then
that were at home really to run the farm were my 3 brothers and they. . they never,
never got involved. [02:06:07:00] We didn’t had a real reason to get involved except for
we just knew, we just knew that it wasn't right to, we just felt it wasn't our job to do
that, it wasn't. But living in that area, it was tricky because y'know, you would see the
people that would have been helping you with the hay during the day, maybe with a
shotgun that night, maybe planning to shoot you. [02:06:35:15] You know my brother
woke up one night and his next door neighbour had a gun and he was about to shoot
him, and he saw him, and he ran off, just because of something maybe that happened in
the area, y'know like we might have bought land and we might have y’know maybe. .
There was one other occasion [02:06:58:02] where my father bought a house and he
was told not to, not to buy it and then that night there were shots put through the
window, y'know. Or these men stopping you along the road and saying we know who
you are and we're going to get you, but it was, it was very difficult, it was very difficult
times and you didn't know who to trust so you just, you just kept yourself to yourself
and didn't, didn't bother. . didn't…. and y'know ….. you didn't get angry whenever you
heard of all the people being shot dead, you just thought when is this ever going to end?
[02:07:34:04]Will we be next? We are going to be next. Cos you did feel very vulnerable,
even if you were in a car at night and you were driving along a lonely road, they could
jump out. And they did jump out 'where are you going, who, who are you??’. You knew
exactly, whenever you would say the name, they would say ' and where are you going
now? And who are you? And where are you from? And who’s your mother? And who’s
your father? And they would just go on and on and on and you were standing there
totally, totally at their mercy [02:08:06:16] and you knew, and the gun wasn't far from
you, that they could have shot you. [02:08:14:03]
Q: Would you have felt protected by the British Army when they came?
OLIVIA: [02:08:54:09] Right, so when the British Army came, I didn't feel any more
protected, you just did not feel protected at all in any manner of means because you
were a very vulnerable person, you were as vulnerable walking down the street where a
bomb could've gone off as you would have been in a car at night. And where we lived,
very lonely roads, y'know, high hedges and you could see them, you could see the Army
and the military moving around the area and your heart just stopped whenever you
were stopped in the car, and you know it would have happened very, very often, you
were continually stopped, [02:09:41:01] searched, get out of the car, where are you
going, who are you with? Y'know, who’s , who are your . . your back . . who are your
passengers in the back? Get out, do the search of the back car, the boot, do the engine,
go underneath the car, everything, and that was routine. And then you sort of got into
�the swing of it and into the way of it and you just, you just, you just felt yourself very
vulnerable. [02:10:08:09] As opposed to being protected.
Q. Now, how have things changed?
OLIVIA: [02:10:16:08] So things have changed, probably things have changed for the
better in that you don't have the searching, you don't have all the army searches, you
don't feel as vulnerable on the road, you don't, you're not scared of. . in the car on your
own at night, you're not scared of a car driving behind you and maybe following you for
the guts of your journey y'know, and even, so you feel much more at ease... and less
vulnerable. [02:10:58:15]
Q: Would you have gone to the 12th celebrations?
OLIVIA: [02:11:25:08] I would never have gone to the 12th celebrations, never, simply
because I wouldn’t, well first of all, fear, because your own side would not support you,
and also if the, if the Orangemen had a known you were a catholic you don't know what
they would have done with you, it wasn't worth the risk. You wouldn't even watch it on
the television, and they used to walk past your house, your door y'know. They used to
walk down the road and you just closed the door and you never looked out you just
didn't want any interaction with them whatsoever. [02:12:05:15] So that it would not
put you in any jeopardy or any fear of them coming around for retaliation, that was
definitely a no. [02:12:14:13]
Q: What do you think the future is going to hold for Northern Ireland?
OLIVIA: [02:13:32:18] The future for Northern Ireland is... not going to change in my
lifetime, very much . . but it’s a very, very . . we're going at a snail's pace and that's the
way it will go and I think that's the only way it can go because, y’know, you just can't
turn it around overnight. Cos there has been so much that has gone on and every now
and again whenever it raises its head you sort of say to yourself, you know what, we're
not really all that far, far on but we're going at a snail's pace and that snail's pace is for
the better and for the future and it’s much more positive than it has been. I mean
there's a lot of good things have happened and yes, but it’ll be at a snail's pace and it
won't be in my lifetime. [02:14:28:06] Like for example a united Ireland won’t be in my
lifetime. [02:14:32:12]
Q: Would you like to see a United Ireland?
OLIVIA: [02:14:34:00] I don't see what advantages there going, there would be, to me, a
United Ireland, I probably would say maybe, y’know you’re maybe stronger as a country
going together but we are only such a small piece of that island, I don't, I don’t really see
any…. I just see we are so small, does it really make a difference whether you are a
�united Ireland or not? [02:15:03:12] I don't, don't see any benefit, I don't see any
benefit that we would gain from it. [02:15:09:15]
Q; Can you talk a little about the arts and how being involved in drama involved in cross
border, cross community stuff?
OLIVIA: [02:15:19:23] Well the drama and the cross community stuff, was a great outlet,
for myself who had just come back from working in Chester and, to me it was a great
opportunity to get into different communities and to be accepted by ALL communities
because once certain people hear your name or know who you are or where you're
from, then they make the assumptions oh they’re. . they box you….they box you off but
being in a, by being in the drama facilitation, it sort of releases all those tensions,
releases the tensions from the people, the cross community that you're working with.
And you all realize, after a while, we're all on the same level, we're all on the same
playing field [02:16:14:09] and nobody really wants to upset anybody and everybody
has a story to tell. So it has been a great release of, your thinking, it has really helped in
your creativity and looking at, at different ways and also not to be as judgmental
y'know. You could have been very judgmental if you have been in single, but now that
you’re sort of working across all disciplines and all nationalities and all. . taking all . .
everybody on board, to me it has given a great sense of balance to your own perception
of people and makes you less opinionated and gives you a better judge . . less
judgmental. [02:17:03:14]
End file [02:17:12:23]
End of Interview
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Memory Project (<em>collection</em>)
Description
An account of the resource
"The Memory Project is an exciting, innovative arts programme that uses drama and theatre to deal with the past and build pathways for the future and to promote peace, reconciliation and mutual understanding in Northern Ireland and the southern border counties.
The project is run by Smashing Times Theatre Company in collaboration with Corrymeela Community / Irish Peace Centres and is funded through the EU’s European Regional Development fund through the PEACE III Programme for Peace and Reconciliation managed by the Special EU Programmes Body.
The project consists of a series of creative storytelling happenings, workshops and dramatic performances, along with a television documentary which will be made to record the process." (from the Smashing Times Theatre Company website)
In addition to the 12 filmed interviews (involving 15 interviewees), the project also produced an hour-long documentary entitled 'The Memory Project: Stories from the Shadows' which documented the work of the theatre company, over the course of two years, as it carried out the project.
Two theatre productions were also presented as part of The Memory Project.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015
URL
Non DC - URL of Organisation / Project
http://www.smashingtimes.ie/page-2/page-2a/
Stories Collected
Non DC - Number of stories recorded as part of the project.
12
Stories Deposited
Non DC - Number of stories deposited with Accounts of the Conflict.
11
Collection Permission Form
Non DC - Collection permission form signed and returned.
Yes (signed: 10 November 2015)
Delayed Access
Non DC - Yes/No on request for delayed access.
No
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Permission Form Scanned
Non DC - Scan of permission form uploaded to archive.
Yes
Publication
A book, article, monograph etc.
Author
Author of the publication
Olivia O’Hagan
Publisher Location
Place of publication: city / town
Dublin
Publisher
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Publication Title
Full title of publication, as it appears on item.
Transcript of interview with Olivia O'Hagan
Publication Type
Report, Book, Manual etc.
Transcript
Publication Status
Published, in Press, Unpublished, etc.
Published on-line
Number of Pages
7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
<em>Untitled Story</em>, by Olivia O’Hagan (<em>story transcript</em>)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Smashing Times Theatre Company Ltd.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
26 October 2013
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDV version of transcript
Language
A language of the resource
English
Availability Online
Non DC - Availabilty Status (deposited, delayed, external, cain)
deposited
Catalogue ID
Non DC - ID for the Catalogue entry that relates to this entry
3462
Memory Project
Smashing Times